Residential stormwater bills due May 1 in PTC
Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 1:42pm
Submitted by The Citizen
Submitted by The Citizen
It’s that time of year again, as Peachtree City residential stormwater bills are due by May 1.
The bills are based on the amount of impervious surface on a given parcel and is due from all property owners. Those who are leasing a property are asked to forward the bill to the property owner, city officials said.
Single family residential stormwater customers will pay between $32.28 and $72 for the year, while those living in attached residential developments such as townhomes and condominiums will pay $22.20 per year if they live on a public street, and between $22.80 and $89.16 per year if they live in a private street.
Businesses pay a monthly stormwater fee based on the total amount of impervious surface on their lot.
The funds are used to conduct preventative maintenance inspections of the city’s stormwater system along with capital improvement projects to remedy drainage issues that have developed over the years.
To report a stormwater or drainage problem online, visit www.ptcgovernment.org/develop/engineering/stormwater/drainage/.
Tue, 04/17/2012 - 11:58am
#2
Haddix: Stormwater
Stormwater is mandated by State and Federal Law. No escaping it. It must be a separate accounting, not from the General Fund.
There is also no escaping the fact that stormwater was neglected for decades. Now those chickens are really coming home to roost with all that old cheap pipe they used coming to the end of life, in example. It only lasts 20-25 years. Do the math compared to when the bulk of PTC growth occurred. Yep, we are now entering the heaviest years on repair and replacement.
We had the road collapse on the Pky a few years ago. Another last year on Wisdom and this year a pipe collapse by Walgreens under the road. Plus all the homes that were flooding and took a lot of repair money and work. Plus a lot of other fixes already finished.
All of us who own homes are all paying for it. I agree that when we talk about taxes it is property plus stormwater.
But you do not want it paid for out of the General Fund where a majority on Council can divert the money to spend on their preferences, as happened in the past. By being separate, the money goes into its own Fund and cannot be spent on anything but its intended purposes.
We have a known list of millions of dollars worth or repairs we cannot ignore as happened in the past.
I agree, everyone needs to get engaged. This year is going to be an eye opener during the Budget Process.
As for the TSPLOST, you are dead on correct. It is a huge money eater that is planned to last for ever, not just 10 years, and it is the enabler of Plan 2040 and the RTC and RTA. It is foundation for Concept 3 which will bring rail and bus to Fayette.
The politics of the past cannot be the politics of the future. But we have those that are trying to stay the old course of political Budgets over citizen Budgets.
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 3:04pm
#3
PTC Dysfunction, Bad Budgeting and No Decisionmaking
The real issues here with the PTC Council are (1) that the meetings in Peachtree City are unproductive and (2) that decision making is not happening. Could everything be a split vote? Yes. And that would be okay. Almost every U.S. Supreme Court case is a split vote. And yet they get along and move on to the next case. Just take a vote and move
on ! But not this Mayor and not this council.
Councilmember Learnard has already shown why she would not be a good mayor. If she cannot tolerate a dissenting viewpoint on a blog about stormwater and budgets (with no real personal insults in it) how much more dictatorial would she be with a gavel? At the April 19 meeting she attempted to silence Mayor Haddix’s blogging to which he rightly answered “Or What?”. The truth be known, the response to objectionable free speech should not be suppression but more free speech. With her constant attempts to embarrass and stir up Haddix, Learnard shows that she would probably quarrel as a Mayor and get nothing done, just like they’re doing now.
Mrs. Learnard reminds me of former Council Member Annie McMenamin, also a mayoral aspirant. Ms. McMenamin tried to stop Mayor Steve Brown from writing letters to the editor by making a motion for a resolution of the council. Her attempt died for lack of a second. It was silly. Mrs. Learnard is attempting the same type of legally flawed censorship aimed at Mr. Haddix here.
Which brings us to the real issue (which is apparently what caused Mr. Dienhart to walk out of the meeting) which is the dysfunction of the council. This whole issue arose in the context of Stormwater management, a subject Mayor says has been shoved aside. He tries to accuse his opponents of “political budgets”, defined as giving people nice things that they want. But (as Editor Beverly opined some time ago) shouldn’t government be focused on base needs and not optional luxuries--- those “nice” things? Shouldn’t the city be concerned with Stormwater maintenance, which the Feds require, rather swimming pool bubbles, motorcycles, tennis courts and ball field irrigation? It seems that the entire council has let the administrators run the city and the end result is giving the demanding public bread and circus.
Thu, 04/19/2012 - 7:59pm
#4
I Agree With the Mayor!!
I know it doesn't happen often but I agree with the Mayor at least as far as "the chickens coming home to roost" part goes. I was in the underground utility business for 10 years before becoming the concrete paving guy and you would be shocked at the condition of our storm drain system throughout the state. The biggest problem is that when developers put in subdivisions, they typically only have to maintain the storm system for a couple of years before the city or county takes it over. Knowing this, they used the cheapest pipe they could. In most cases, that was corrugated metal pipe and it is rusting and failing all over. Maybe more alarming is that over 90% of PTC's system is corrugated metal and the Mayor is being generous with his estimate that it will last 20-25 years.
It's been mostly out of sight, out of mind until now but the chickens are certainly coming home to roost.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 9:48pm
#5
efdrakejr - And I suppose
that we need to begin as soon as possible tearing out all that pipe and replacing it with good quality concrete? In fact, let's double up on the thickness of those concrete pipes!!
Now, I don't suppose you and your concrete group were in there lobbying away for the "storm water law" (Tax)?
Right Gene?
So, if I look across this great city of ours, how many times have we had one of these pipes fail? Hundreds of times? 10 times? none?
Storm water pipes undermining our streets and homes? That's the least of our problems pal, how about corruption that's undermining our nation, state, county, and city. Legalized theft, that's all it is.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 10:12pm
#6
Assume the Position Ostrich
I can tell you unequivocally that we had absolutely nothing to do with the stormwater tax. I'm just telling you something I know for an absolute fact based on years of experience. You can choose to ignore it if you like but it won't make it go away.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 11:04pm
#7
efdrakejr - I
I would choose to ignore it, but can't because I am being taxed for it whether I want it or not. With your "years of experience" you should be able to answer the questions posed,
How many failures to our storm water system have been experienced in PTC in the last five years?
What material is likely to replace these metal pipes?
Why wouldn't a lobby, not lobby for the material that they lobby for?
Do you really believe, that we believe, that you and your group had "absolutely nothing" to do with a law that would feather your own nest?
Did you fall out of a turnip truck yesterday?
Come on Gene....answer the questions. Especially the one about the turnip truck, I think we know the answers to the other questions based on logic.
Thu, 04/19/2012 - 5:39am
#8
Mayor Haddix--- quite the startling
Mayor Haddix--- quite the startling revelation--- that stormwater maintenance has been "neglected for decades". Political budgets and citizen budgets? I do not understand.
I will say that I wholeheartedly disagree with Mr. Imker's plan to raid the reserve fund to balance a current budget. That is simply analogous to Washington, DC's plans to "kick things down the road" so our children and grandchildren can deal with the effects of a reduced reserve fund. It is not there to assist in operations. It is there for an emergency. It sounds to me like you people have to raise both the general taxes and the stormwater funds. Your solution is to not do stormwater maintenance which is required by federal law. WRONG. Mr. Imker's solution is to reduce our emergency funds. WRONG.
It seems that politicians everywhere are too afraid to do or to say what needs to be said rather than do the courageous things that need to be done.
Thu, 04/19/2012 - 2:00pm
#9
Haddix: cogitorgofay
Cogntoergofay, we have to do stormwater and I support it. In fact, I worked with the stormwater designers back in 2005, I believe it was, as an HOA President helping the define problems in our area and design solutions, including Tinsley Mill and the Aberdeen Shopping Center.
I hope that clears that point up. It is a must and I support.
As for a politicians budget, that is one designed to please certain people and enough voters to get reelected or reelect those who help them maintain a majority position. It is also one designed to get past their term in office for when it fails.
A citizens budget is one designed to actually meet those needs that are less attractive, and sometimes controversial, as in infrastructure (buildings, roads, stormwater, etc) and service (fire, police, code enforcement, etc). It is one that recognizes you cannot tax property owners to financial death, so sometimes you have to do cuts. As well it cares about the impact on those that come after they are out of office.
I voted against the 1.25 in 2010. I already, on the Dais, said I will not vote for any tax increase or a budget that does not have spending reductions. We are out of time and have hit the Budget wall.
We are getting hit with yet another big reduction in the Tax Digest (property tax) this year. Sales Tax revenue might increase slightly, or not, depending on the impact of things like gas prices.
It is no big secret the economy is bad, With prices of food alone going up 6-15% it is nothing to celebrate if Sales Tax income does increase slightly. That is not how I want to get more revenue.
If we must increase Stormwater any, then there must be a corresponding cut in property tax. No effective increase in the total of the two.
As for spending $3 million from the Reserves, the loss of SPLOST money, another reduction in property tax revenue, $5 million more in debt and no cuts in spending resulting in a tax reduction in about 4 years, it is an amazing claim.
How can it happen? By moving from the 5 Year Plan of Councilmembers Learnard, Fleisch and Imker to a 10 Year Plan.
As I said last, no one does 5 year budgets because the do not work. 2 years is the longest in the business world, but the second year is always subject to major revisions. As with government, one year is the norm.
We need spending cuts, not spending the Savings Account and piling up debt.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 9:32am
#10
Haddix's ten year plan
Like all government "planning" we will see increased taxes and under performance. That's the only sure thing we can expect from any kind of government planning. Soviet styled government doesn't work in Russia and it won't work in Peachtree City either. It will benefit a select group at the expense of the many.
The solution is simple, if a drainage pipe crosses your property, it's yours. You fix it. If it is broken or malfunctioning on a street in your neighborhood then the homes or businesses that are impacted must chip in to fix it. Why should someone that lives clear across town fix a pipe in my yard that I have been cramming leaves into for twenty years. Let's stop putting the burden of things that impact us on others we don't know. It's called private property rights and responsibilities.
This way we can keep politicians like Mr. Haddix out of our lives, I think most would be willing to pay to do just that alone.
Thu, 04/19/2012 - 2:51pm
#11
Mayor
"We need spending cuts, not spending the Savings Account and piling up debt."
My Goodness Mayor, have you finally realized the size of YOUR city government is too large? After all, wasn't it you who said that you had cut all the fat away some years hence?
Thu, 04/19/2012 - 3:09pm
#12
It happens to all of them, Mike
After decades of a ho-hum existence in the corporate world or a small business, a worker-bee gets elected to something in city or county government. Good well-intentioned people who are sincere about making a difference go into office and as soon as they see the availability of huge amounts of money thru taxes or grants or matching funds along with a compliant staff who has been trained in the "bigger is better" viewpoint of government, they morph into spenders on steroids. Two or 3 years into their first taste of any power or authority they become completely different people. And after 2 or 3 terms - they are fully qualified to work for GSA as a meeting planner.
Don't know what the solution is, but I sure can recognize the problem.
Thu, 04/19/2012 - 3:53pm
#13
Haddix: Bigger is Better
Then your not happy with Councilmembers Learnard, Fleisch and Imker, I take it.
After all, they overrode recommendations from the 2 side on service cuts on non essential areas being needed from 2010 on, opting for the 1.25 tax increase instead.
Again, King plays loose with the truth. I never said no service cuts. I said no to his more pay and benefits cuts or cutting even more people when we are struggling to get work done with our current numbers.
On first Council I did vote for benefits cuts, pay freezes and at least 30 employee eliminations. Then some more on the last Council after doing streamlining.
To do anything serious on spending cuts, now, it has to be service cuts in non essential areas.
We have to set real priorities that address real issues, exciting or not. Been pushing that from 2008 on. We still are not there.
Finally, I am not bogging down in an argument with certain bloggers. It is pointless.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 11:35am
#14
"Playing Loose With The Truth?"
Let's get something straight, it has been my position that both the police and fire departments are extremely top heavy, and you have defended their composition for each of the four years plus that you've held elective office. It has been my position that both are over equipped with vehicles that serve more for the convenience of their drivers than for their actual purpose, and you have supported virtually all of their equipment expenditure requests.
Don, you preside over a council that keeps borrowing money essentially "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in an economy that only the government sector has grown. You and our current President have very much in common. Stop blaming those on Council for your failure to lead.
Lastly, I don't blame you for not continuing in this thread, for your track record has been abysmal.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 12:49pm
#15
Thank you, Mr. Dienhart, for walking out
Thank you, Mr. Dienhart, for walking out of the Council meeting last night. You were absolutely correct. Those three council members fighting last night were an embarassment displayed to the whole world over the internet. They should be working together and not (as M King says) fighting and "robbing Peter to pay Paul." You three should be ashamed of your leadership paralysis.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 2:08pm
#16
Video of PTC Council meeting
Haddix just cannot SHUT UP. Once again, his enormous ego, paper-thin skin, and extreme pettiness turns the meeting into what Dienhart correctly stated as looking like a "a bunch of complete idiots to everyone else." Imker is right there with Haddix at times, but not quite to that abysmal level yet. Close, but not yet. Plus, as Mayor, Haddix has to one day learn something remotely resembling leadership and stay above it all. Instead, he keeps whining and whining and whining. Disgusting.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 3:11pm
#17
Dienhart campaign promise not working out too well
Not that it is remotely his fault, but he did say he was running for office in order to bring some civility back to city council. Watch the tape if you can stand it. It starts around 3:14 or so with first Kim and later George politely asking the mayor to quit blogging about the budget. Look at the reaction, look at the exchange with Imker, look at George walking out, then stop looking. It will make you sick to your stomach. Steve Brown on his worst day - and there were many, was at least acting like mayor at meetings instead of some bully on a schoolyard playground.
There really needs to be an embarrassment switch for the camera and mike that someone can throw when things get like that - like a cough button on a radio mike. You guys do know that those meetings are posted on the website so that anyone in the world can see them, don't you?
I thought it was really funny and a little bit silly when mudcat started promoting the idea of voting for just the ladies in the last election. Now, I'm thinking we would be much better off if we had a female mayor, Beth, Kim, Vanessa and Doug or his replacement George. Cindy Plunkett was a bit over the top on development issues, Beth was the same on enviornmental issues, so that would balance, but you would never, ever see a disgraceful display like last night with that lineup.
Sun, 04/22/2012 - 1:09pm
#18
PTC Council Meeting
Embarrassing behavior....the whole lot of 'em. I've come to expect no less from Donnie and Erica but Georgie Porgy getting his panties in a wad and leaving before the end of council meeting was a shocker. Perhaps his council pay should be docked for failing to perform duties for which he is paid. Even before this little temper tantrum, his yelling and screaming was over the top behavior. C'mon, Kim...you had to know that bringing up his blogging was going to light a fire under Donnie and open the door for Erica to start piling on. Mission accomplished! And once again, rather than cast a deciding vote, Vanessa The Hair asked to table a controversial agenda item so as not have to face the music for a tough vote. Is there a money back guarantee with this cast of small headed clowns we elected??
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 2:18pm
#19
PTC Council Meeting Joke
Yup, they all digressed in to their separate sit-com, real time characters. Can't make any decisions; can't face any problems; can't comply with anything. When talking about buying a frigging motorcycle (which is as big a waste as a government buying a swimming pool bubble) they get bogged down over $100 a month. And they wonder why no one comes to these meetings ! And to add to all, Vanessa tables the whole thing.
I'm not ready to throw Dienhart in to the blender yet. The other four--- "Bringinabroom"--- they need to go. Dienhart is just reacting to Learnard's latest provocation that had no real policy purpose. She just wanted to chastise Haddix. Learnard was being childish and I can see why Dienhart got pissed off.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 7:25pm
#20
RWM
This is beyond funny. Our mayor actually believes that his version of events trumps all others. I believe it is NUK_1 that that iterates that this buffoon is much worse than Brown, and I agree totally.
Jim Pennington is currently the Headmaster of Peachtree City's Kinder Care City Council, and I'm positive that he's having second thoughts about his decision to come here.
The adults on the dais are both female capable and willing to pit these two against one another assuring their political rise to prominence by the sheer absurdity of the male rhetoric. Dienhart, realizing that he can not win a shouting match walks out both frustrated and defeated.
Peachtree City at its finest.
Sat, 04/21/2012 - 7:56am
#21
PTC Thursday Night at the Fights
The only thing missing from Thursday's PTC Night at the Fights was Donnie saying "Blame it on Joey".
Kim Learnard and Eric Imker are to blame too for the debacle. Why she waits to spring these "Kimmie Stink Bombs" is beyond me. If you disagree, fine, take a vote and move on. If you don't like someone, just wait until the next election. Here they are so dysfunctional they have to table whether or not an extra hundred a month on a motorcycle is a good idea. Its no wonder that the inmates are running the asylum down at City Hall. What a joke.
Fri, 04/20/2012 - 2:56pm
#22
Haddix vs Learnard
There is a part where Imker and Haddix are bickering like the 4 year olds they are for about 10mins, and Learnard asks Don "I am asking you to please stop this" and Haddix responds twice with "OR WHAT?!!" This exchange(among the others) shows just what an immature, little person Haddix truly is and how totally unfit for office this "man" is. Utterly pathetic but I shouldn't be surprised.
Worse than Brown? Way worse.
Thu, 04/19/2012 - 3:24pm
#23
RWM
Haddix has espoused until just now that there were no cuts he was willing to make in the city's budget. I'm afraid this is one of those two times a day this broken clock is correct.
Tue, 04/17/2012 - 6:54am
#24
just curious
I have no specific knowledge, I would expect PTC is using the money properly, just never hurts to see how the money is being used.
Mon, 04/16/2012 - 9:32pm
#25
stormwater fees
If you are a curious PTC resident, do an open records request to the City to see the stormwater fee fund account and see how these designated funds for stormwater and drainage work are being used. I would expect they are being used for only stormwater and drainage work.
Mon, 04/16/2012 - 9:48pm
#26
Now, streetcleaner
do we detect that you might know otherwise? Come now, 'fess up.
The Stormwater utility is similar to the TSPLOST. The Government used to take care of drainage projects with our taxes just like they used to take care of our transportation needs with our taxes. They decided to set up a separate entity to do these jobs and, in the case of the Stormwater utility, they just added a tax. In the case of transportation they got a bit smarter and asked us to tax ourselves. In neither case did they reduce the taxes they used to use to cover these expenses. They just increased our taxes.
And we sit quietly by like sheep. Well, we will have a chance to tell them what we think about the TSPLOST and vote it down. 50+% of the funds raised by the TSPLOST will go to public transit, a system that cannot either support itself nor demonstrate its value by increasing its ridership. 50+% of the funds will go to a system that serves under 4% of the people in transit while the stated purpose of the TSPLOST, to reduce congestion, gets the other 40+%, except for the parts that go to bike paths and cart paths and walking paths. What a joke.
The Stormwater utility is a crock we are stuck with. The TSPLOST is a much bigger rip off that we have some say in.