Rep. Westmoreland: Healthcare vote fundamentally alters nation

U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland

The Democrat victory on healthcare Sunday night “will fundamentally alter the nature of our nation by implementing a government takeover of healthcare that Americans don’t want and can’t afford,” said U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Grantville).

The Democratic healthcare plan passed 219-212.

“This vote creates an expensive new entitlement that implements a government takeover of one-sixth of the American economy,” the Third District congressman said. “This law will raise taxes on all Americans, it will kill jobs in a lagging economy, it will put mandates on Americans and on businesses, it will put government in between doctors and their patients, it will raise the premiums of people who currently have insurance.

“The Democratic healthcare bill will add $2.6 trillion in new spending. There’s no free lunch,” Westmoreland said. “We’ll either tax ourselves to the point we’re not competitive internationally or we’ll simply add on more and more debt. Regardless, the bottom line is we cannot afford this new entitlement.

“We have bills that as a nation we can’t pay as it is. Now we’re adding on more stress to an overburdened system. Our debt obligations threaten to put our economy in critical care, and we’re crippling the ability of innovative Americans to create new jobs,” the former Fayette County resident said.

“There’s no doubt that there are many Americans facing tragic situations because they lack health insurance. Many more are underinsured and millions live in fear of losing their coverage. By opposing this legislation, we are not belittling or ignoring the real crisis in our nation’s health care system. Republicans have put forth responsible reforms that have fallen on deaf ears with this Democratic Congress and administration. No matter how great our desire to cover each and every American who lacks coverage, we do not serve the greater good if our actions bankrupt our nation,” Westmoreland said.

PTC Observer
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DM - Views

Perhaps I should clarify, lies are things that have no basis in fact. The fact is that the view of the Hoover administration taught by public schools has no basis in fact. This will be revealed to you if you study history.

History is something, apparently, that the public education system believes is not very material to future citizens as evidenced by their continued marginalization of it in public curriculum.

I have not concentrated my studies specifically on the Hoover administration however I do believe that I have a firm grasp of the facts. You like most within the current education system have been consumed by it. I don’t consider this your fault by any means; you are simply a victim of it.

Trust me madame, I am no conservative. However, I do attempt to seek the truth and the truth shall set us free.

Davids mom
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Was this included in your research

regarding 'Progressives' during Hoovers Administration?

They attempted to exclude illiterates, African-Americans, and others from voting, and to reduce immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe through devices such as a literacy test. Many Progressives supported prohibition in order to destroy the political power based in saloons. At the same time, women's suffrage was promoted to bring a "purer" female vote into the arena.
It is important to research and know that 'administrations' cannot be summed up in a label. The early 'progressives' had a 'conservative' element that was detrimental to true democracy - yet note, women received the 'vote' before those of a different hue were allowed to vote. Hmmmmmm. Labels aren't as telling as 'actions'. History is far more interesting when one is exposed to ALL of history - and the different views that 'writers' of history bring to their work. Labels mean little in describing current actions of government'.

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Progressives Research - DM

Interestingly, during the Progressive Era the KKK was at its zenith. It is not suprising that they attempted to include some at the expense of others. Their goal was a socialist revolution not equality.

S. Lindsey
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Really DM.. Glad you mentioned HISTORY

and I am so glad you think we should judge the present by the past..

"In a recent speech to the NAACP, Vice President Gore said his father lost his Senate seat because he supported civil rights legislation. Fellow black Americans, let me set history straight. Al Gore, Sr., together with the rest of the southern Democrats, voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21NVDavisGore599.html

But I guess now you will say all those democrats are now the Republican party..

Spin on DM Spin on.. btw.. Check out who voted against the 64 act.. Shocker those still in CONGRESS ARE STILL DEMOCRATS.... Those that aren't still in Congress retired as DEMOCRATS..

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Reliving soon to be ancient history of 20's-60's

Hate to pull a wiki on you but:
Gore was one of only three Democratic senators from the eleven former Confederate states who did not sign the 1956 Southern Manifesto opposing integration, the other two being Senate Majority Leader Lyndon B. Johnson (who was not asked to sign) and Gore's fellow Tennessean Estes Kefauver, who refused to sign. South Carolina Senator J. Strom Thurmond tried to get Gore to sign the Southern Manifesto, but was told "Hell no" by Gore. AND By 1970, Gore was considered to be fairly vulnerable for a three-term incumbent Senator, as a result of his liberal positions on many issues such as the Vietnam War and Civil Rights.
Goes on to mention other internal state issues & personalities.
I doubt Al, Jr would say Al, Sr was prejudice free. From my family history it is an evolving process.

Davids mom
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History/Lindsey

Maybe if you had gone to a good public school where different views/concepts/analysis of history were actually taught - you'd realize that educated persons have known this fact for some time. It is a fact Lindsey - the South lost the Dixie Democrats (they became Southern Republicans) at the signing of the Voting Rights Act. What is your point? We followed Strom Thurmond and Byrd, both astute politicians, as they added blacks to their staffs, etc. This isn't spin - it's history. Check it out. Republicans of today MAY not have the same attitude towards blacks. There are black Republicans. What's your point Lindsey? Did you just find this out? Or did you find it out when Gore was running for President - and the Republican Party hoped that this would turn the black vote against Gore? Politics, politics, politics - a funny/ugly game at times.

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Actually DM just pointing out a little overlooked Fact

also won my bet.. You turned Democrats into Republicans.. Strange you and Obama have the same gift..

Davids mom
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Thank you Lindsey

Thanks for the compliment - but give the Republicans of today some credit. They have made their current platform quite clear. Lyndon Johnson did the 'magic' trick and turned the Southern Democrats over to the Republicans by signing the Voting Rights act in the 60's. Maybe that was left out of your history books. I understand that Texas is going to re-write their history books - and leave Thomas Jefferson out of it. Oh well . . . perceived supremacy is hard to lose. Good night.

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No DM Texas stood up for History

Who has a sitting Grand Wizard of the Klan in it's rolls? Hint not the Republicans..

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S.Lindsey

Have you noticed how some people like to keep picking at old wounds so that they never heal?

S. Lindsey
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I know Joe..

It just makes their "hated" justified..

"Most of the Dixiecrats did not become Republicans. They created the Dixiecrats and then, when the civil rights movement succeeded, they returned to the Democratic fold. It was not till much later, with a new, younger breed of Southerner and the thousands of Northerners moving into the South, that Republicans began to make gains.

I know. I was there.

When I moved to Georgia in 1970, the Democratic Party had a total lock on Georgia. Newt Gingrich was one of the first "outsiders" to break that lock. He did so in a West Georgia area into which many Northerners were moving. He gained the support of rural West Georgians over issues that had absolutely nothing to do with race.

In fact, very few party switches came about right after the Civil Rights Act was passed. Some exceptions who did switch were Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms." Diann Alden

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/12/13/194350.shtml

Davids mom
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Joe

It was PTC and Lindsey who brought the Klan into this discussion - not DM. Right? Just made a few clarifying comments based on 'fact'. Actually, it's no longer a wound - just a sad part of our American history. When one looks at ALL of our history - we as Americans are making great progress.

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and DM all I did is point out the one party with a Klan member

and a Grand Wizard at that... He didn't switch party's did he? Sort of shoots holes in that theory that all RACIST Democrats just became Republicans..

"one typical tirade as the floor manager for the segregationists, Byrd actually made the argument that the writers of the Declaration of Independence simply “did not intend that these words should be taken literally to be true” when they wrote that “all men are created equal.” While invoking this hallowed line from the Declaration, Byrd says:

“Men and races of men differ in appearance, ways, physical power, mental capacity, creativity, and vision. One man is born blind. Another is born lame. Geniuses are not made; they are born. Between two individuals, as between two races, there are broad differences.”

"Byrd found King and his successful non-violent civil rights tactics particularly disagreeable. In fact, Byrd even volunteered to help discredit King, as Byrd was worried about a successful non-violent protest coming to Washington. Byrd initiated contact with the FBI in early 1968, suggesting that he give a speech condemning King on the floor of the Senate. Byrd said that it was time Dr. King “met his Waterloo,” but, interestingly, the FBI declined to avail themselves of Byrd’s “services.”5

Byrd’s 1964 filibuster goes from bad to worse after desecrating Jefferson’s most memorable line. At one point, continuing to emphasize what he believed was a fundamental inequality between the races, Byrd actually introduced a “study” by a Frank Boaz, author of the book "The Mind of Primitive Man." The book certainly was primitive, making the case at one point that white brains actually weighed a few grams more than black brains, with the resulting conclusion that whites were necessarily more intelligent. Byrd does not tell us how many brains were studied in this particular effort. "Human Events 2002

Davids mom
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You may have been there Lindsey - but . . . .

Read the factual history of the Civil Rights vote. Southern Republicans and Democrats opposed the measure. Byrd may have retained his hateful ideology - but Johnson was right. . .the south became the stronghold of the 'new' Republican Party - following the leadership of one Barry Goldwater. (Note his vote.)

Ultimately, on June 19, the substitute (compromise) bill passed the Senate by a vote of 73-27, and quickly passed through the House-Senate conference committee, which adopted the Senate version of the bill. The conference bill was passed by both houses of Congress, and was signed into law by President Johnson on July 2, 1964. Legend has it that as he put down his pen Johnson told an aide, referring to the Democratic Party, "We have lost the South for a generation."[8]
[edit] Vote totals

Totals are in "Yea-Nay" format:

* The original House version: 290-130 (69%-31%)
* Cloture in the Senate: 71-29 (71%-29%)
* The Senate version: 73-27 (73%-27%)
* The Senate version, as voted on by the House: 289-126 (70%-30%)

[edit] By party

The original House version:[9]

* Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
* Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)

Cloture in the Senate:[10]

* Democratic Party: 44-23 (66%-34%)
* Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

The Senate version:[9]

* Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
* Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House:[9]

* Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
* Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

[edit] By party and region

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

* Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%)
* Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0%-100%)

* Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%)
* Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%-15%)

The Senate version:

* Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%) (only Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
* Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%) (this was Senator John Tower of Texas)
* Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%) (only Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia opposed the measure)
* Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%-16%) (Senators Barry Goldwater of Arizona, Bourke Hickenlooper of Iowa, Edwin L. Mechem of New Mexico, Milward L. Simpson of Wyoming, and Norris H. Cotton of New Hampshire opposed the measure)

[edit]

S. Lindsey
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Dm your circular logic is making me dizzy

I don't have to had of been there to be able to read the varying versions of History DM and yes there are many..

I read a "version" of history written by an agnostic that said the Pilgrims where all atheist that fled England to be able to get away from GOD.. This version was actually taught in New York Elementary schools for some time..in the 70's.

It was raised once again in the Texas Schoolbook debate. That History had no basis in fact though that did not stop it from being taught as "gospel" pun intended.

You said Dixiecrats all changed to become the Republicans..

Now the Dixiecrats were a splinter movement from the democrats in an attempt to sway the election in 1948.. After the election they disbanded.. Now skip ahead about 20 years.. The 1964 Civil Rights act was championed by the Republicans and voted against by most of the Democrats.

Using your logic

Then the opposite would have occurred on the 64 act.. The "Racist Democrats" who "changed" over to the Republicans would have stood against that act.. while the "NEW" democrats would have been the ones promoting it..

That's not what occurred.. You may read into history whatever you so desire but you cannot change that basic fact..

The very same democrats that in 64 voted against the act STAYED democrats.. It is easy to check DM..

Gore Sr. voted AGAINST the act and he was a DEMOCRAT until he retired.. Byrd voted against it and is still a DEMOCRAT. All of them are STILL DEMOCRATS.. So your theory that the Dixiecrats became the Republicans of today does not hold water.

You can keep trying to obfuscate that fact by throwing out garbage from the Confederacy.. I am speaking of more recent history as in just 1964..

"Republicans favored the bill 138 to 34; Democrats supported it 152-96. Republicans supported it in higher proportions than Democrats. Even though those Democrats were Southern segregationists, without Republicans the bill would have failed. Republicans were the other much-needed leg of the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

Davids mom
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Just look at these FACTS AGAIN - no spin

The original House version:

* Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%)
* Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0%-100%)

* Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%)
* Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%-15%)

The Senate version:

* Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%) (only Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
* Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%) (this was Senator John Tower of Texas)
* Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%) (only Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia opposed the measure)
* Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%-16%) (Senators Barry Goldwater of Arizona, Bourke Hickenlooper of Iowa, Edwin L. Mechem of New Mexico, Milward L. Simpson of Wyoming, and Norris H. Cotton of New Hampshire opposed the measure)

Davids mom
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LOL Lindsey

You are dizzy - stop spinning. The facts are there. . . note, we're talking about SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS - who did not support the bill. Byrd remains - as a Democrat. Come on Lindsey - how many Democrats can be elected from the South today? Leave Atlanta - and Georgia is Republican. Zell Miller used to be a Democrat - but honestly best represents his constituents as a Republican. If the Southern Democrats were NOT RACIST in their ideology, why didn't they support the 1964 Act? Today - I would not call a Republican or a Democrat racist unless their actions supported that claim. However - history and I stand by the FACT that Southern Democrats and Southern Republicans who did not support the Act were racists. AND AFTER LYNDON JOHNSON SIGNED THE BILL - THE SOUTH WENT REPUBLICAN - AND FOLLOWED GOLDWATER AND REAGAN. (and even tho Carter is a Southerner, the South tries to disown him) This is fun. Bye.

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You have more spin than a Commercial Dryer

but go ahead try to EXPLAIN away the 1964 DEMOCRATs that remained DEMOCRATS and still are TODAY.. You have been bought and paid for again and all they asked in return was a vote.. Morals are bought cheap these days..

Davids mom
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Lindsey and the Klan

I don't think the Grand Wizards of the Klan (who were Democrats) are representative of the Democrats (or Republicans for that matter) of today. Take a look at their backgrounds. They influenced the thought of the Southern Democrats who found it unthinkable that 'blacks' be allowed to vote.. .hence most southern Democrats joined the Republican Party after the signing of the Voting Rights Act. (Look it up - it's factual history) I'm sure there are some other accounts of the men that are listed below. Please share. I know that Republicans today are not the Southern Republicans of the 60's. Right? Thanks!

Nathan Bedford Forrest

William J. Simmons

Hiram Wesley Evans

James Colescott

I would be interested to know what you were taught about this period in our history.

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DM & Lindsey

Please re-read my post

My point was that the Progressives of the early 20th century, excluded some constituencies at the expense of others. The KKK was among the groups that gained power under the Roosevelt, Taft, and Wilson Administrations. Progressives all. Wilson was particularly careful not to offend this political force during his run for the Presidency.

The Progressive movement is and was a relentless march toward a socialist revolution within the US. We are continuing that march today. With the possible exception of Ronald Reagan this move toward social "equality" has not abated. Ultimately, democracy will lead us to fascism and socialism.

Squabbling about shifting power between political parties is immaterial as both parties have essentially continued to codify and reinforce the socialist philosophy begun in the late 19th century. We should focus on the real problem, the power of the state.

Davids mom
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PTC Observer - Thanks

I agree - squabbling is irrelevant. You have an interesting take on the history of the Progressive Party. Click below for more information.

CLICK HERE

PTC Observer
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Dave's Mom - Progressive Party

I was not referring specifically to the Progressive Party but to the Progressive movement. Certainly the Party played a significant early role in the development of a socialist platform, but the socialist movement began before the Progressive party. It coincided with the end of the Civil War and the resulting increase in power of the central government, increased population in the cities, immigration from Europe and the growth of power within labor organizations.

If you are interested in some books on the early development of the Progressive (Socialist) movement in the United States let me know. I think I have already given you enough material to digest and did so in order to broaden your understanding of the truth concerning Hoover and the Progressive era.

The progressive movement is continuing today under the leadership of the Democratic Party, however as I mentioned earlier the Republicans out of political expediancy have moved toward the socialist agenda. I see nothing changing these dynamics as both parties move further left.

Davids mom
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Progressive Movement - ptc observer

I'm happy to read your references - if you admit to reading mine. As you can see, we both have quite a different take on the history of the Progressive Movement. We seem to have a different take on the 'Truth' of the movement and it's goals.

CLICK HERE FOR ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW

CLICK HERE FOR A WOMEN'S POINT OF VIEW

CLICK HERE FOR A DIFFERENT VIEW ON OBAMA AND PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT

PTC Observer
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Davids mom

OK done,

that was pretty easy reading, now what is your point?

You are clearly a progressive and I am not, so.....?

Davids mom
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PTC

Just broadening our knowledge. Thanks. There are different points of views - that's the point. Have a pleasant weekend.

PTC Observer
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DM - Readings

Good, I have used yours to broaden my knowledge of you; let me know when you finish the works I recommended and perhaps you can learn some actual facts. Then we can have a "broad" dialog.

You have a good weekend too. ;-)

Davids mom
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PTC

I'm so glad that you now know more about me - and you consider me a Progressive. Please help me. What is it about your beliefs that make you a non-Progressive?

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DM - My views

I will address these at the top of the string as the reply column is getting too narrow.

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PTC Observer

The response that you received proves that age does not always bring wisdom.

PTC Observer
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Thanks Joe

You know of course "intellectuals" are not interested in facts or truth, they are interested framing their argument based on emotion and how they "feel" things should be.

This is what has gotten us into the sorry state of affairs we are in today. They are really good talkers and deal in ideas but not reality.

You will never persuade them with facts, it's simply not in their nature.

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PTC Observer absolutely correct

The Progressive movement is a movement between both parties.. John McCain George W Bush and many others are progressive participants. Obama is the first President to actively out themselves as progressive.

They now have no fear in announcing their progressive agenda.

doright
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Glenn Beck viewership up?

Looks like someone is watching a lot of Glenn Beck and Fox News.

PTC Observer
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doright

Since you know B. Franklin's pen name and know something of history, it appears that you question the facts presented. Please explain your objection or present your position. Then we could have a dialog. Or should we simply expect little quips out of you without any substance?

BTW - Glenn Beck while marginally correct on a number of issues, is "flakey". This is the problem with most "right wing" spokespeople, they simply go off the deep end and become irrational.

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S.Lindsey-That's Where We Differ

You and I grew up very differently. My grandparents emigrated here from Eastern Europe to escape Hitler....none of them had a formal education, in fact they did not speak the language and arrived with about $20 in their pockets. All from the same village. They were under 16 years of age when they arrived. All remaining relatives in Europe were put to death by the Nazis.
They started with nothing, living in tenaments and through hard work and opportunity they each made individual fortunes.
They understood the importance of social justice..especially when they each received letters that their entire village and remaining family members were put to death.
That lesson was passed down with a clear understanding never to be self absorbed or selfish! Those are the people I admire most, people who put their new adopted country first...people who donated their entire fortunes to organizations to help their fellow man.
We were taught to work hard, be competitive,and always care for your fellow man and help to create a better society for everyone.
America is a great country and what's tearing us apart are self absorbed politicans who put themselves first, lining their campaign budgets with lobbyist' money...not really caring about the people who elected them.
Yes we need to balance the budget, and quickly, but we need a country that takes care of the unfortunate.

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GAltant

Define - "unfortunate".

The dictionary version is
- not favored by fortune; marked or accompanied by or resulting in ill fortune;
-"an unfortunate turn of events";
-"an unfortunate decision ...
- inauspicious: not auspicious; boding ill
- a person who suffers misfortune

Make no mistake, there are "unfortunate" people in the U.S., and most Americans are unfortunate to have Congressman and Senators that don't listen to their opinions.

However, there are those that are categorized as "unfortunate" when the truth of the matter is that they made wrong decisions that put them where they are. They could have dropped out of high school to pursue a career (unsuccessfully) as a rapper and now can't find a job, or perhaps decided to try meth "just once" to see what it was like and ended up losing their job and their family and are now living on the street. These are not "unfortunate" people. They are people that made very bad choices.

What is your definition of "unfortunate"?

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Lindsey and Galtant

Your discussion brings out good points. There is a commercial on TV - where one person does a 'small act of kindness' to another - and this act encourages another person to help someone else during the day. A good example of 'personal responsibility' in action. I agree that this country is extremely generous - giving through churches, organizations, and through government money. The acrimony in some statements disguises what I'm sure are the good hearts represented on this board.

S. Lindsey
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GAltant.. We do..

"Yes we need to balance the budget, and quickly, but we need a country that takes care of the unfortunate."

There is no other Country that is more Charitable both Domestically and Internationally.

Look at the Billions sent to New Orleans and now Haiti..

But equal misery does not equate equality. Forcing others to shoulder a larger burden then we already shoulder is both morally wrong.. it also violates the very Spirit of the Founding Fathers.

Since Obama loves using analogies I guess I can too..

Let's say my next door neighbor we will call him Bob bought a very large house and lives a lavish lifestyle.. He bought more house then he can afford and spends more than he brings in.. He begins to fail..

Now let's say the Government steps in and saves him, but to do so they go to everyone in the neighborhood and FORCE them to pay for Bob's house and debt. Would you hand over the cash because you care or because they held a gun to your head..

The Government cannot force you to care and should not force me to pay for someone else's failures.. That is the basic concept of Government run Healthcare.

I have to pay by force of law for others failures.. A Homosexual gets aids because they have unprotected sex.. Why do I have to pay for their treatments?

An alcoholic's liver fails and needs an Organ transplant.. Why do I have to pay for the operation..?

A 400 pound person gets Diabetes.. Why do I have to pay for their Insulin?

Now you lose your job (thru NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN) and can't afford Cobra.. I will help subsidize that.. but only for so long and under confirmation of seeking employment.

Children are already covered but additional coverage if necessary.. again no issues..

BUT.. you say you can't afford to buy a policy and get sick.. but yet you have cars, plasma tvs, Cable and go on vacations and you want me to pay for you.. Well SUCKS TO BE YOU..

I am all about personal responsibility.. WE are responsible for ourselves FIRST.

GAltant
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S Lindsey - BRAVO for you

I guess you are ok with the large health insurance increases over the past years.

I hope you remain healthy too because when you get sick, you will be dropped by your carrier and then you will not be able to find another carrier because you have a pre-existng condition.....

That is what happened to the employees at my company

Not sure why I am telling you....you are a person who controls his/her own destiny and believe that people need to take responsibility for themseleves...right....screw the world and everyone in it...watch out because here I come!!!

Its called the Church of The Blessed ME! ME! ME! ME!

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No, It is called Free Will

This healthcare step brings us closer to the brink of loss of free will. The first step, mandating that everyone must buy health insurance through the use of the "Commerce Clause". Next a mandate of what is healthy and unhealthy to eat and do- since the feds are paying for and controlling healthcare. Then with such a libertine interpretation of the Commece Clause - no aspect of our lives would be sacrosanct. The government could dictate any aspect of our lives through the Commerce Clause. And our freedom dies a little with each bite.

S. Lindsey
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No GAltant..

I do Charity work all the time as well as make sure a percentage of my income goes to Charity... So I do my part for my fellow man.

I just don't expect others to do for me. I guess I was raised a little different then most. My parents were dirt poor.. there were times when my Mother could not put meat on the table.. She would use Milk Gravy and toast and that would be our meal.. SO I know tough times..

In my own life I have failed more than I succeeded.. But each failure/hardship taught me a lesson.. One.. not to do the same thing and expect a different result.

That is what we are doing with Healthcare.. NOT ALLOWING PEOPLE TO FAIL.. We see the same thing with the Bank bailouts and GM and Chrysler. We must be allowed to fail. It's the best way to learn from it.. To grow.. IF I had asked the Government to assist me where would I be..? I don't know but I do know one thing we all have issues.

Rather we allow them to dictate to us their terms or rather we stand up to them is OUR CHOICE.

GAltant I truly feel for you and/or your employees.. But it is not my responsibility to pay for you or anyone else but me and my family.

I know that's not what you want to hear.. but there it is.

We cannot afford this. Now don't get me wrong I would like to see reform as well.. But there are better ways to do this.. and this is not it.

Davids mom
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Lindsey - Show us!!

We cannot afford this. Now don't get me wrong I would like to see reform as well.. But there are better ways to do this.. and this is not it.

WHAT IS IT? What ideas do the nay sayers have that are NOT IN THIS BILL? Only 'must do' items are being implemented immediately. We're looking for statesman who can look at the bill and work together to improve it. Where is the budget analysis for the 'improvements'? SHOW US THE BETTER WAY! It's your/their responsibility to present the 'better way' document with budget figures. Hurry – inquiring minds want to know.

meanoldconservatives
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S.L.

Would you please explain that it is not WHAT IS NOT IN THE BILL that is the problem. It is WHAT IS IN THE BILL that is the problem. You know, that little "income shift" Sen. Baucus so deftly confessed to. That "mal-distribution of income in America" that takes from the achievers and gives to the non-achievers. It is so much more palatable to call it that rather than that dirty "S" word.

S. Lindsey
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I would MOC

but it's as I have said.. Pigs singing and all that..

We have given her the reasons.. the items not included as well as the items included that is a basic threat to liberty or is not a part of real reform..

Any more is just redundant

S. Lindsey
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DM how many more time do I have to chronicle them for you

I have done so over and over and over...

You are just be obtuse and deliberately misleading.

Go back to your soap operas reality bites..

Davids mom
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Lindsey

I'm so sorry. Will someone post for me Lindsey's budget plan for Health Reform? Thanks. Sorry I missed it!

S. Lindsey
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Oh DM you wanted a budget plan....

You said you wanted to know what my IDEAS where not a budget plan so sorry must have misunderstood..

Ok here ya go..

The Lindsey budget plan for Healthcare.. PAY FOR IT YOURSELF.. Stop asking others to pay for it for YOU..

Davids mom
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Lindsey

Calm down and read your stuff before you post.

You said you wanted to know what my IDEAS where not a budget plan so sorry must have misunderstood.

WHAT??????

Don't bother to re-write. Affordable health care is NOT WELFARE!

S. Lindsey
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I really get tired of going though this with you DM

Davidsmom posted

Lindsey - Show us!!
"We cannot afford this. Now don't get me wrong I would like to see reform as well.. But there are better ways to do this.. and this is not it."

YOU ASKED

WHAT IS IT? What ideas do the nay sayers have that are NOT IN THIS BILL? Only 'must do' items are being implemented immediately. We're looking for statesman who can look at the bill and work together to improve it. Where is the budget analysis for the 'improvements'? SHOW US THE BETTER WAY! It's your/their responsibility to present the 'better way' document with budget figures. Hurry – inquiring minds want to know.

I responded..

"DM how many more times do I have to chronicle them for you
I have done so over and over and over...

You are just be obtuse and deliberately misleading.

Go back to your soap operas reality bites.."

You Responded

"Lindsey
I'm so sorry. Will someone post for me Lindsey's budget plan for Health Reform? Thanks. Sorry I missed it!"

Now DM where did I go wrong??

Your post I thought was very clear you asked..Demanded really..
"What ideas do the nay sayers have that are NOT IN THIS BILL? Only 'must do' items are being implemented immediately"

Then you turned and wanted my budget plan??? Now I didn't say it before.. but you wanted a freaking BUDGET PLAN FROM ME.. so if I don't have one all arguments are therefore void.. REALLY DM..!! Have I ever said I was an ECONOMIST DM? For that matter ARE YOU??

Davids mom
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Lindsey

I rest my case. Nite.

S. Lindsey
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Yes it is past time

to say goodnight..

Git Real
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Lindsey

Why do you bother?

It must be to expose the demented and twisted mindset of the liberal mind. I suppose if that is your gig.... You are on most definitely on top of your game.

Bonkers
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DM: Lindsey and hutch and MOC's plan

I didn't see one but I can guess what it is.

1. Don't change nothing.
2. The normal exchange of goods and services will solve the situation.
3. Health Insurance companies are magnificent operations.
4. I got mine, they can get theirs. I ain't payin for it.
5. I worked HARD for mine (dug ditches, thought a lot, shuffled papers., etc.) They can do the same.
6. Besides it is gonna get worse until President Obama is gone. All he does is fly the wings offn AF 1 going to war places and every place in the country all of the time. When does he sleep and hunt.
7. He is just trying to show us just how smart he is>

hutch866
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Bonker$

Show me anywhere I have outlined my plan for healthcare, you can't because I haven't. Don't put words or ideas in my mouth, you lying piece of dung. Davids Mom, I call him a liar because he is, if that's a problem for you, well it sux to be you then. So I was going to let it go Bonk, but lets play, show me where I took you out of context, I showed you where you said you voted for both McClain and Obama, you were lying about one, which is it?

Bonkers
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hutch

Regret you are upset and irrational.
I said that I hadn't seen your plan but I could say what would be in it! This comes from the criticism of the current one.

As to McCain, I have said twice what I did, but for you I will again:

The first time McCain tried for President, I helped in his campaign--he didn't get nominated.
This last time I wanted to vote for him but after hearing his speeches and picking Sarah Palin after HE WAS nominated, I could not VOTE FOR HIM OR HER. I voted for President OBAMA THEN SINCE HE WAS THE ONLY OTHER CANDIDATE.

Please don't get further "hung-up" on accusations of lying rather than respond to a statement! Or not respond at all with calling a human being a piece of dung.

What is your opinion of the "HATAREES" and the "TEAS."

hutch866
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Bonk

Twice I have showed what you wrote about McClain, did you write it or did I make it up, so yet again,answer the question, which time were you lying? It's not an accusation it's a stone cold truth with the proof posted. The fact remains also that you were putting words in my mouth, so go lie about something else and leave me out of it. One thing you're right about is that it's not fair to the dung to compare it with you, liar. It's funny watching you deny though, you should have been a politician yourself, the lies come easily to your lips and fingers.

meanoldconservatives
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Bonker$

Actually, you lucked up and got a couple correct.

Now, let's guess at your plan:

1) Be angry at anyone who was successful in life

2) Expect everyone to smile while providing for you

3) Complain about everything

4) Demonize Republicans and worship Democrats all the while calling yourself Independent

5) Start blogs on here that nobody replies to and be forced to do "addendums" or even use other aliases to not look completely stupid

6) Watch the women on FOX and hate yourself because the only CNN woman you would have ever had a chance with is Candy Crowley, and even that is doubtful

7) Claim to vote for John McCain in 2008 and then later deny voting for him

8) Deny, deny, deny when caught lying

9) Try to get through a day without using an entire package of Depends diapers

Bonkers
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MOC

I am successful.
No one provides for me.
I complain about the parts that are bad. No need to brag on the good parts.
I must be an Independent. I have voted at least twice both ways.
I assume that a no reply generally means agreement or embarrassment.
I don't see much of the FOX herd (Stepford women) of women. Disgusting display.
I have great respect for John McCain. He just got senile.
I deny nothing that I'm wrong about.
I don't know what those diapers are! Is that a bad thing for people to have?

Davids mom
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BONKERS

Keep it up. You're bringing out the best that they have to offer. To those who might read this stuff - there are Conservatives who actually can analyze facts without belittling others; can discuss without calling someone with a different view of a 'fact' a liar. What a shame that some have not been exposed to different ideas. Now I understand why some in different parts of the country have a different impression of the reasons for the Civil War, Slavery, Manifest Destiny, etc., etc., etc. A very educated woman told me that the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery - it was about States Rights. I had learned the same fact - the right of states to keep slaves. Same fact - different analysis.

Spyglass
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He's the resident nutjob....

the fact that you take him serious, should give you pause.

meanoldconservatives
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Hey DM

Since you seem to want to be the conscience for everyone on this blog, why don't you explain what Bonker$ was trying to do when he shared his idea of our "plan" (you know, Hutch, Lindsey and MOC)? Was he not trying to belittle us? Make fun of us? Call us out? Did he not name us specifically?

All I did was turn it back on him and have some fun with him. The same thing applies to Bonker$ as it does you, and even me for that matter. If you cannot take the replies, then do not call people out by name. Is it my fault that you guys can't respond in kind? And then you get all indignant when you can't?

And while you're explaining things (for those who might read this stuff as you say), please give us your best liberal explanation how someone is not lying when they said in Oct 2008 that they voted for John McCain THIS TIME and then said earlier this month that they did not vote for him THIS TIME? Hmmmm??? Well??? Does it depend on "what the meaning of "is" is" or something like that?? I think Hutch was confused on this too.

Bonkers
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MOC

You are simply magnificent! Don't want to be addressed as MOC, but calling me Bonkers is OK. Hypocritical again.

No, I think those ideas about what you want in government that I listed are probably true.

meanoldconservatives
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Bonker$

"You are simply magnificent! Don't want to be addressed as MOC, but calling me Bonkers is OK. Hypocritical again."

What are you talking about old man? Addressing me as MOC? That is a lot easier to type than meanoldconservatives and is what many people do. That had nothing to do with anything, but grasp for straws if you want. You are called Bonkers because you are.

Oh, you're also called "liar" because you are that as well. It's documented.

Bonkers
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MOC

You didn't like "being called out by name," as you put it!
You assume I lie, but you don't lie you just deal in your opinions!

You remind me of the bully who said don't step over this line---the fellow did and the bully drew another line further back and said, "don't step over this one either!"

You seem to feel that you have rights that others do not have.

I am now going to take my grasped straws and quit arguing with an impossibility. For now.

meanoldconservatives
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Bonker$

"You didn't like "being called out by name," as you put it!"

Wrong again Bonk. I didn't mind it at all. When you speculated on my "plan", I responded. DM came to your immediate aid because you apparently need her help. My point was simple. When you post things and put people's names out there....it will come back. Simple enough old man? Don't whine and get all mad when you start it. I'm not getting my feelings hurt out here. Neither can you when you start it.

"You remind me of the bully...."

So, you start the thing by speculating on my "plan". Because what I come back at you with is a little more of a zinger, that makes me a bully? Again, if you don't want to get it back in spades, leave our names out of it. Otherwise, grow a set and inform DM that you can stand up for yourself.

"You assume I lie....."

No, I know you lie. In October of 2008 you wrote here that you had voted for McCain in that election and had also voted for him previously. Then earlier this month you wrote here that you did not vote for McCain this last time, but that you had voted for him previously. So in 2008 you claimed to have voted for McCain in that 2008 election. In 2010 you claim you did not vote for him in 2008. Twist and spin it any way you choose, one of the two was a lie. Be a man and admit it.

Davids mom
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MOC

Sticks and stones. We're judged on our own words. This is not algebra - 2 negatives do not make a positive.

meanoldconservatives
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DM

Two negatives, huh? So when you replied "BONKERS Keep it up!", that was in reply to a negative? And you encourage him. But then my reply is also seen as a negative to you and you poo-poo that. Algebra, sticks and stones, judging people in your own way. Interesting.

Anyhow.....so you can't really explain that Bonker$ lie then huh, just don't really like that word "liar" I guess. Maybe he shouldn't lie then huh? Or are you saying liberal lies are just accepted? I got it.

S. Lindsey
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The Gimme Generation

You worked for yours.. Now GIMME mine!!!

My Grandparents and Great Grandparents would be ashamed of you..

meanoldconservatives
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S.L.

Your Grandparents and Great Grandparents would be ashamed??? Can you imagine how ashamed his own ancestors would be? To birth a Bonker$? I'll bet they'd be so proud of his lies too.

John Gault
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Alas...

At last an educated soul. Now the $10 question... What was the protagonist preaching, in the work. Who is John Galt??? And is it not ironic how art imitates life....

The Wedge
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John Galt

Was an engineer at 20th Century Motors (iirc) who discovered a way to harness static electricity in the atmosphere to a motorized kinetic form. Disgusted with the "moochers" who took from the talented and hardworking and dismayed by a government filled with moochers who carried the rule of law and the law of guilt that allowed for the confiscation of the wealth and talent of the hard working, he organized a "strike of the producers". They began disappearing one by one and "who is John Galt?" became an expression from people who had no ideas and no clue what to say about the state of things. Eventually the world fell apart because "Atlas Shrugged". And yes, it does parallel quite nicely to the times of now.
I am not a complete objectionist and I am not a complete laissez faire person, I did enjoy the book. Fix your name so that all may ask "Who is John Galt?" and not "who is John Gault???"

thanks for the fun. Have a great night

John Gault
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Touche....

Too much paperwork to fill out to change my name though. Good to know that theres still some thinkers and readers out there. Spot on...

John Gault
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von Clausewitz

Oh how we never learn from the mistakes of the past....... We have seen what happend with the alleged....Consumer Protection Act...(CREDIT CARD REFORM.) Where as all increased interest rates/fees/ and closed accounts. 300% increase on average on interest alone... Example CHASE Americas new pimp..

Now comes the proverbial straw that broke the camels back.... Health care reform.... Gee Yogi I went to work this week and only recieved this Voucher. That says I can stay in my House (DOMICILE) another week, and stop by Wal-mart on the way home and ascertain some groceries for the coming week. Obtain one tank of gas to get back and forth from work... And the rest of my Voucher went for Health Insurance..

Sound Familiar anyone.... Its called Socialisim.... And should this bill become law, whats next???? Welcome to Serfdom...... PEACE enjoy it while it last....

GAltant
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S Lindsey

So basically what you are saying is screw me, screw my employees and screw the other 32 million people who can't get health insurance...right? They are all a bunch of bums anyway, probably illegal immigrants, not hard working people.

Let me guess - you must be covered under a large corporate health plan...or already on medicare (retired)...lucky you.

Your arguments do not necessarily hold water.
The extra costs to large corporations you are referring to are an accounting accural procedure. That's assuming they take the total accrual which would actually be bad for Fed and State governments because it can be used to reduced corporate taxes paid.
I suggested a consumption tax on sugar related products like junk food and soda but the industry lobbyists started campaigns to stop that idea.
I agree that the health care costs are too high and taxes needed to be collected as quickly as the benefits begin, but I also believe that both Obama and Bush have made other tremendous mistakes over the past 8 years that have contributed to the growing deficit.
There should have been no middle class tax cuts done by Bush and Obama...an extra $300 a year per person does nothing to help Americans but it gains votes in election years....the government needed the money to help balance the budget not win elections....same on Dems and Repubs
Iraq - what the hell are we doing in Irag....We took our eye off the ball to overthrow a dictator who threatened Bush 1 (Bin Laden is still free)...we should have stayed focus on the real enemy...we wasted trillions of dollars in Iraq and meanwhile we are now just getting at the real war in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

In the new health care new law I see no mention of a single payer system. All I see are the establishment of co-ops for people who can not get insurance to find insurance as a larger block. I also see more people buying insurance which increase the number of customers providing more revenues to insurance companies allowing them to offset that with possible lower rates. The basic tenets of this law are items that were also proposed by Bush in the past for health care reform...many republican ideas.

Look at where the Federal government is spending most of our tax money and you will see that a large portion is towards health care under medicare, medicaid. So that being said I suspect that you would agree that the Federal government should immediately stop Medicare, Medicaid and what about the other entitlement programs such as Social Security?
Right??? The Federal government should only provide for defense and selected other issues.

I bet you disagree with me on Medicare and social security because you have paid into it and you want your entitlements..you want what's yours and do not do anything that will increase your taxes in any way that could help others....

One final question..the 32 million without health care...who pays for them when they go to the hospital and the hospital helps them? Don't you think you are paying for that in higher premiums or are you going to blame that on Obama and the Dems? Before you do, ask your employer how much their company health care costs have increased over the past 5 years before Obama..you will be surprised.

Well...I wish you luck...I hope you don't lose your job or your health care plan...COBRA is expensive and frankly I do not want to see my unemployment taxes go up in my business because you and millions of others who lost their jobs...Why should I eventually pay more...right!

It's time for all of us to wake up and care for each other....its also time to elect new senators and congressmen who care about America, will work together, balance the budget and build a strong America for us.....

S. Lindsey
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GAltant first you are arguing from a false premise..

that 32 million want healthcare and CAN'T get it...

About half that number are people for whatever reason have the ability to purchase a policy but have decided NOT TO..

The Government has decided to FORCE them to do so.. Wrong move.

Second you expect the Government to be able to control a multi-TRILLION dollar ENTITLEMENT program without further fraud, abuse and abridgment of basic freedoms.

Third.. You want taxes.. Somebody has to pay for it right? The Government is fraught with fraud, abuse, corruption and just plain incompetence. Why is the first option of most "Moderates and Liberals" is to TAX.. Why not cut the fraud and abuse and STOP SPENDING!!!

Finally.. Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security ARE ALL GOING BROKE..

Social Security is now giving out more than it takes in.. 6 YEARS EARLIER THAN PROJECTED… That means it will now and forever will be a deficit spending program..

The CBO just came out with a projection that in 10 years to service the interest on our debt is going to take 90% of GDP..

“(Washington Times)- President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2 trillion more than the administration projected, and raise the federal debt to 90 percent of the nation's economic output by 2020, the Congressional Budget Office reported Thursday.”

GAltant.. the Country is almost broke. We cannot afford to rack up any more debt. Under this program every drug addict, Alcoholic, morbidly obese or anyone who commits any risky behavior gets insurance and coverage.. NO MATTER THEIR OWN ACTIONS..

GAltant I am neither retired nor do I have a “Corporate plan”. I PAY for my policies 100% I choose what I need. I also NEVER EXPECT to get ANYTHING from the Government. Social Security will not be available for me..

I have planned my life around that one fact. I too have had my own “tough” times.. the one thing I never did was ask the Government for anything nor did I expect others to come to my rescue.

Davids mom
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AND THAT'S THE TRUTH!! - not socialism

It's time for all of us to wake up and care for each other....its also time to elect new senators and congressmen who care about America, will work together, balance the budget and build a strong America for us.

S. Lindsey
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Forced Charity is not caring DM

To have the Government force others by way of taxes or any other means and give that revenue to others that THEY deem fit to receive it is the very definition of SOCIALISM..

Socialism..

1.Political system of communal ownership: a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles

2.Redistribution of wealth, typically through progressive taxation.

See the similarities DM?

btw.. I don't have to live in a Socialist Country to recognize the potential of a Government creeping towards Socialism.. All you have to do is be aware and awake.

Davids mom
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Lindsey

See the similarities DM?

Spend a week in Cuba. Now that's socialism. Control here is still in the hands of corporations, politicians/lobbyists, etc. We still own our own homes, etc. - and pay taxes for 'services'. If 'gov' spending has gotten out of hand, it is because we allowed special interests to influence our government - rather than US!! This 'socialist' talk is a smoke screen to hide our mistakes of the past. We're awake. We're astute enough to see through the smoke screen of trying to halt our progress out of this mess. .. but you and Joe Kawfi keep up the good work. People are beginning to do their own research and analyze for themselves what is true and what is false. Radical right and radical left are the losers.

S. Lindsey
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No DM sorry you can't see it..

Maybe you never will at least that's my wish.

When have you ever seen OUR Government Nationalize our Banks and Major Manufacturing..?

Maxine Waters said it herself.. Was she Lying DM? No not a smoke screen.. Obama is a radical. He has grown up around these Socialist.. He thinks like them he acts like them and now Governing like them.

He surrounds himself with them.. Like my preacher scenario and like Swaggart Obama is a "Sinner"..

Davids mom
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:-) Lindsey

Maybe we shouldn't post after 10:00 p.m. We both agree that the US is not socialist. . . .and as our citizens become more involved . .. it won't be. Open discussion promotes understanding and RESEARCH. America is awake - after 8 years of a long, long sleep.

AtHomeGym
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DM and New Congresspeople

Like you, I'd like to see some new folks up there, working together to solve our Nation's problems. Big hangup though, is where in the world would those new folks come from? The whole situation is so tainted and onerous that one would almost have to be a fool to step up and volunteer. For my part, the first step needs to be actions to make lobbyist activities ineffective. Don't need them. What say you?

Davids mom
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AHG

I agree! Vote!

Davids mom
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AHG

I agree! Vote!

Davids mom
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What is happening outside of Fayette County

There is a movement out there - and it's not just Tea Parties! Westmoreland is pretty safe for re-election - but many are not!

ISSUE STATEMENT NO. 4286: HEALTHCARE REFORM -SMALL BUSINESS & ACCOUNTABILITY….
Before we go back to “Rebuilding” and “Re-affirming”, we need to have some “Accountability” stuff done. We speak specifically of those elected officials who didn’t seem to care that much about what WE needed in the way of Healthcare Reform. They seemed to care more what their “other” constituents wanted. WE say that, because they kept saying what “my local constituents” want, or don’t want. Since WE were telling them something different than they were purporting, they had to have been talking about their “other” constituents.
We don’t know how your local representative voted. But, ours did not do the right thing-not by small business. We supported Congressman John Barrow in his last election. But, we will NOT support him in the next one. Congressman Barrow is gonna have to rely on his “other” constituents, if he’s gonna be reelected. Not only did he not “vote” right, but, he misrepresented to us the effects on small business. He talked about the “tremendous cost” to small business. We, now believe he misled us, so he could vote somebody else’s agenda. Somebody “other” than us.
We tried to tell him some specifics about the businesses we represented. But, the Congressman wasn’t listening to us. He was, evidently, listening to his “other” constituents. We now have statistics, that Barrow had available to him. We tried to tell him, but his mind was made up, already. We tried to tell him that the overwhelming majority of our small businesses did not have, nor would ever have, over 50 employees. Thus they would NOT be required to “bear this cost” that Barrow kept talking about.
Steve Strauss, AOL contributor, “cites statistics that particularly point to the new plan being smart for small businesses and entrepreneurs: 49% of businesses with 3-9 employees -- which describes a majority of small businesses -- offered any kind of health insurance to their employees in 2008, which is almost 10% less than 10 years ago; 29% of employees at businesses with less than 25 employees were uninsured in 2007. Strauss thus sees that recent developments in affordable health insurance are a huge factor for a previously under-represented segment of the population.”
Did the Congressman not know this? Did the Congressman not know that, rather than “costing” our small business, Healthcare Reform would benefit them? Read again what Mr. Strauss said:
“Still, Strauss does agree with many naysayers that health care changes will likely not have much effect on small business overall. Those with fewer than 50 employees will not be forced to get coverage, even though they may anyway, simply because it provides a more affordable option than is currently available and is wrapped up in many incentives.”
Mr. Congressman Barrow, we no longer need your services. We must by terms of the Constitution, tolerate your being in office until the end of this term. But, if we were you, we wouldn’t be counting on being in The Nation’s Capitol next term. That is unless you have enough of your “other” constituents that are gonna keep you in.
This Healthcare Reform was “History” making. We counted on you being on the “Yea” side of that History. You violated the trust we’d put in you. We do not know the reasons you chose to do this. All we know is for us, this was a deal-breaker…

Note: No racial slurs or threats of bricks, harm to families. NOW THIS IS THE AMERICAN WAY TO DISAGREE

Henry T. Wilfong Jr., MBA, CPA
President, NASDB
Current or Former Positions:
Three-time Appointee of Governor and President Ronald Reagan
Pasadena, CA., City Councilman
Associate Administrator for Minority Small Business/Capital Ownership Development, SBA
Member, National Council on Policy Review-Black Capitalism
Member, Presidential Task Force on International Private Enterprise
Member, California Council on Criminal Justice
Member, NASA Advisory Council
Chair, NASA Minority Business Resource Advisory Committee
Co-Chair, Unity Network and Black Republicans for Obama

GAltant
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MeanOldConservative - need your advice

So tell me....if you owned a small business, worked very hard, what would you do if your health care insurance was increased over 250% over the past 5 years....then, 2 employees get sick plus 1 had a sick child...your insurance company drops you, you have no health insurance and you go to shop for another insurance company and they won't cover your employees because 2 and 1 dependent have pre-existing conditions. What would you do???

Do you call this "entitlement"? Am I a liberal because I want to provide insurance for my employees and family?

It's nice to work for a large corporation that provides health care to all of their employees - you never have to think about this stuff..right?

I'm a Republican and I am glad that someone had the "balls" to address the health care issue....

5 years ago I was a selfish hard working business person who didn't want to pay anything out of my pocket to help anyone...Social Justice - BULL.

Now my employees and my family are one of those 32 million without health care coverage.

Wake up because this could happen to you too!

meanoldconservatives
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GAltant

As promised, here is my response. You are correct for sure about the fact that it is nice to work for a large corporation that provides me health care, to an extent. They do not provide it for free, like they used to. See, our rates have skyrocketed also. Now, it is a choice we all make in our lives. Own a business and potentially make bigger money or work for "the man". Some of us have that entrepreneural risk in them, some don't. That comes with way more risk than working for "the man". Further, I can either work for the same company for decades and hold my insurance, or go play the field. I choose to stay there and maintain my benefits. It is all part of my compensation. You might say, well you're lucky you haven't lost your job and been on the street. To a certain degree yes, but there is way more than luck involved sometimes. I survived another round of layoffs just this week. So, you don't have to remind me what could have happened. You choose on the other hand to not sell your business and go work for a big corporation. Again, your choice but inherently your risk. I admire your guts. I need the security of a paycheck twice monthly and good benefits.

I lost my sister to brain cancer in the last two years and my girlfriend survived breast cancer last year. So again, I am aware of what can happen.

I was going to type a long essay about the rest of it, but if 1bighammer doesn't mind....see his post called "Yes I am Blessed" under the Forum "Health Care Victory For Obama". He pretty much states most of the views I have on the bill and makes it a waste of time to type my version of them.

Again, I sympathize with your situation as well as the people at my company who did not survive the layoffs. It is a risk we all take every day. Many of us believe there was a better way to attack this problem and that puts many of us at odds.

FayetteFlyer
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MOC...just when...

I think I have you pegged, you come up as a true human being! I just hope no one else has to endure the loss of a loved one feeling that they couldn't afford to do anything about it.

GAltant
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MeanOldConservative

I too worked for a big corporation at one time.....so I appreciate what you are going through.

For over 90 years, presidents have tried to address this issue and with no success. Why? The health care lobbyists and the dishonest elected officals who take campaign money from those lobbyists.

There are many parts of the new health care law that are wrong, most importantly the cost...it needs to be paid for and should be paid with a tax that is fair to everyone like a junk food tax or soda tax.

To live in a country that has 32 million people who can afford health care or are denied coverage is a crime. The system hasn't worked well under the insurance companies and finally someone has challenged that.

I do not favor big government and sure do not want to see a single payer health care system but someone needed to step in stop the madness that the insurance companies were imposing on the system. Some regulation was needed.

Personally, I am angry at my elected officials who only care about fighting with the other political party in order to regain control. They don't care about Americans...only their jobs and their lobbyists who financial support them...otherwise this issue would have been addressed years ago.

America needs to start to look internally to fix many economic and social problems..our economy needs to be repaired, government needs to spend less and we need to elect officials who work together for the good of America, not to whip up the American people into fighting with each other...and while we are at it...its time to dump the political pundints who do the same like Lambaugh, Beck, Hannity and the left wing morons as well that are stirring up people into through bricks, shooting in politicians windows and other illegal acts. Where is our "mankind" and civility.
Oh....Glen Beck calls that "social justice", I forgot!

S. Lindsey
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Joined: 12/31/2008
GAltant..We can't fix the Economy by spending us into debt

You have a basic disconnect with reality. Our Economy can only be propped up by the current spending levels..

You have a very particular view of what an American should do.. Shutting up and sitting down if we don't support your views is something we don't do well.

The only approved use of the First Amendment at least by your standards is if we all join hands sing Kubahya and let this all happen to us.. while bending over and saying.. Thanks sir, May I have another..

It's called personal responsibility. We all have it. Only some us seem to exercise it.

The problem here Galtant is that this Healthcare plan is a road map to Single Payer.. as I have shown Obama said it in his own words..

This bill has so many bad pieces to it that it should have been killed and a new one done. One with real transparency and input from everyone.

Like I said before this is not about Healthcare.. If it was the 16 million added to Medicaid roles would be added immediately not in 2014..

Taxes start immediately but benefits don't even begin until then so obviously this was not about anyones health much less care..

The "Kid Care" coverage had to be FIXED because the bill was so flawed it was left out!!!

Getting something in place just for the sake of having something in place is NOT better then having nothing.

If it bankrupts America it is not good for America..

Many major Companies like Cat, AT&T, and many others are now saying this is going to add MILLIONS if not Billions to their bottom line because it cuts of their drug benefits to retirees tax breaks.. Where do you think those taxes are going to end up?

It will be pushed down to the end product.. Lower wages, less benefits and higher prices.. Do you really think this is a good thing just for the sake of having "SOMETHING"?

John Gault
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No need to fear....

The powers that be. The Rothschilds, Rockefellers, etc. Are growing restless, and are soon to come to collect their dower and curtesey, from the puppet leaders of the world, as they manipulate each market and currency to force the powers at be to turn on each other and plunge the world into conflict once again, so that that may play each other behind the scenes and prosper and redistribute the worlds wealth as they did in WWII... The greatest generation has had the last 60yrs to prosper and live in peace.. Unfortunately the BOOMERS that they unleashed on society have pillaged and pilfered and squandered this great nation.. The circus act in Washington is just misdirection in an attempt to hide the ugly truth, that we will be the generation that the check was passed too, and now that America is bankrupt, we will be the ones who must pay. I hope all who read this take this to heart while I know that not all BOOMERS are bad.. Most were to busy living the me, me, me lifestyle. And that its not my problem mentality.. Kind of like the Ostrich putting its head in the sand and hoping the danger just passes it by.. Only now are they starting to pay attention, for one reason or another. Because they had to reverse Mortgage their home, to keep the lights on. Or Junior and his wife and kids had to move back to the nest cause they ended up out in the street after they lost their home.. Or gee the HUMMER or CADDY got repo. The bottom is we are all in trouble at this point. The world is laughing at us.. And while the soap opera unfolds daily in Washington. There are events unfolding around the world that are left unchecked by this administration that I liken to the Three Stooges: Larry=Reid Curly=O-DOG Moe=Pelosi. PEACE

The Wedge
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you do realize,

that the protaganist in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is named "John Galt"? As in "Who is John Galt?"