PTC OK’s $29K fix for ice-storm-damaged tennis courts

If not repaired, city stood to lose national tourney in May

January’s ice storms have done a real number on six outdoor courts at the Peachtree City Tennis Center.

Thursday night the City Council authorized spending just under $30,000 to repair, resurface and restripe the courts.

City Leisure Services Director Randy Gaddo said ice from the storm caused hairline cracks on the courts to expand to one inch wide and up.

The city had not anticipated a need to do the work on the remaining six damaged courts, Gaddo said.

Councilman Eric Imker suggested a variety of ways to pay for the repairs, including the use of an expected $20,000 surplus from the city’s Convention and Visitor’s Bureau.

That concept was quickly dismissed as several council members were concerned about the message that would send to the CVB board. Also, the city is contractually obligated to perform the repairs under the city’s contract with Canongate, the private company that operates the tennis center on behalf of the city.

The expenditure will come from the city’s unrestricted cash reserves. City budget policy allows this type of spending from those reserves because the expense was unforeseen, said City Finance Director Paul Salvatore.

The tennis center is owned by the city.

It was noted that Canongate has the tennis center running at a profit, and also that the company also pours its own money into facility maintenance. Canongate maintains the clay courts itself on a twice-yearly basis, it was reported.

Imker also had inquired if the tennis center would be able to host a national tournament in May if courts were merely patched in a cost-saving measure.

Tennis Center Head Pro Ben Maes said the tournament organizers have already seen the cracks and told him if they weren’t fixed, the event would be moved elsewhere.

Councilwoman Kim Learnard inquired how the city reconciled spending upwards of $29,000 on the tennis center courts when there are a number of city-operated tennis courts in the city that also need work.

Gaddo said he would be making a presentation on that matter at the upcoming city council retreat.

Before the budget crunch began several years ago, the city had the recreation-based courts on a three to five year replacement cycle, but “the budget has not supported that the last few years,” Gaddo said.

In large part because visitors take part in tournaments at the tennis center, Councilwoman Vanessa Fleisch said she felt the repairs needed to be done in full to make sure the city “puts its best face forward” and doesn’t discourage repeat visits.

In particular, if the tournament officials are unhappy with the courts, they won’t bring their events back, Fleisch noted.

"We want to present ourselves as a first-class organization, and if we do anything short we may never get another tournament,” Fleisch said.

Spear Road Guy
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It's Too Cold Those Clay Courts $$$$$

Who were the idiots that decided clay courts were a good idea in the first place???

The tennis center is a black hole sucking money out of our pockets.

As for Mr. Sussberg's little tantrum don't talk about other people throwing stones when you do the same thing. Your little tirade after quitting the Planning Commission was pathetic!!! That's what liberals do. It's bad when someone else does it but it's fine when he does it.

L.Sussberg
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A Letter to Mayor Haddix

After reading all of the blogs and articles concerning a whole host of topics, it clear that you need to consider a change in course.

Continuing to post on this blog to throw rocks and blame council members is not working. Unfortunately you are losing credibility as you continue to do this along with twisting the facts. That has been further compounded by having your wife write a letter that does not really explain anything more than what was reported by the newspaper and the bloggers on this site.

Here are a few suggestions for consideration and I hope you take them to heart because on your current track, clearly you are self destructing, destroying any goodwill and support you have from the citizens in Peachtree City.

1-Have individual meetings with Fleisch, Imker and Learnard (separately of course) to discuss your differences with them, what common ground you share and how to work effectively with each one. I know you have that relationship with Sturbaum and I know you have not reached out to the other 3. I have spoken with each one to confirm.

Fleisch, Imker and Learnard have advanced degrees in their respective fields. Each of them have worked for large corporations and understand the importance of sharing ideas, working as a team and pulling together.
I am not sure you share those same experiences or have an understanding of these principles. You can learn from them, and they can learn from you.

You can not continue to fight with council. It didn't work when you were a council member and now that you have been elected mayor, it is not working either. Also, waiting to November to try to get someone to run against Imker that you have hand selected may not work either plus you are wasting valuable time playing politics and not attending to the city's business in an effective manner.

2-If you feel its important to post on The Citizen, I would keep your posts to only the facts without throwing stones or even mentioning other council members which you do 99% of the time.

3-When reporting the facts, please understand that others may have seen it differently and you need to acknowledge that. Your understanding of something might be different than someone elses. That requires 2 things:

A-Flexibility and ability to change
B-Humility with understanding that you may not always be right

This is probably my third or fourth post to you suggesting you make some changes and they continue to go ignored. People reading this blogs appear to be angry with you and it appears that want change. I think that if you do not make the effort, you might find an opposite reaction in the November election where Sturbaum is voted out and 2 new citizens are elected who are independent in thinking, also highly intelligent and refuse to play games forcing a 4 to 1 vote instead of the 3 to 2 vote that seems to exist.

One thing that you and I agree on is that this next election is very important. You still have time and there are people that can help you with you lack of experience in managing processes and people to accomplish goals that you would like to achieve for Peachtree City.

Thank you.

Robert W. Morgan
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Well Larry, I think you have accomplished the impossible

Your multiple letters to Haddix have kept him from posting anything on here for almost a week. I'll bet he won't be back except for tasteful, factual, non-attack missives. So that takes care of points 2 and 3 in your letter - leaving #1.

And that is a big one. One on one dialog with the three ladies. I don't know that he's man enough to make that move since he would be hearing them discuss his style - or lack thereof. He really needs that gavel in his hand to be in control. One on one requires some intellect and personality.

Nevertheless, congrats. 2 out of 3 is not bad.

AtHomeGym
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RWM & the impossible

If you compare word usage & phraseology of Jackyldo & theMayor,you might rethink your position.

Robert W. Morgan
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Interesting Gym. Could indeed be the same person

Not sure, but certainly possible. I'll watch that.

But that doesn't bother me. Jackydild can be as stupid as Bonkers even it he is the mayor, but the embarrassment factor for the city is removed. When the mayor uses his real name and picture and snipes at everyone, that is embarrassing for the entire city since he is our elected rep. I seriously worry about some company President or some staffer from Industry and Trade reading these blogs as part of his or her due diligence in researching possible places for relocation and reading the mayor's musings. Chilling. Just one more reason to cross us off their list. Ask Mr. Grisham if this helps or hurts.

Chris P. Bacon
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Gee Larry
L.Sussberg wrote:

(snip)
This is probably my third or fourth post to you suggesting you make some changes and they continue to go ignored.
(snip)

You called the Mayor an "idiot" in the paper and now you're scratching your head in bewilderment that the Mayor is ignoring you?

Sorta makes one wonder exactly who the "idiot" is here, no?

L.Sussberg
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Gee Chris

I called it like it was and still is.
Doesn't mean an idiot can't learn? Well most that is, there are always exceptions, right Chris?

L.Sussberg
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A Letter to Mayor Haddix.

After reading the blogs and articles concerning a host of topics, it clear that you need to consider a change of course.

Continuing to post on this blog to throw rocks and blame council members is not working. Unfortunately you are losing credibility as you continue to do this along with twisting the facts. This has been further compounded by having your wife write a letter that does not explain anything more than what was reported by the newspaper and Mr. King on this site.

Here are a few suggestions for consideration and I hope you take them to heart because on your current track, clearly you are self destructing, not to mention destroying any goodwill and support you have from the citizens in Peachtree City.

1-Have individual meetings with Fleisch, Imker and Learnard (separately of course) to discuss your differences, also what common ground you share and how to work effectively with each one. I know you have that relationship with Sturbaum and I know you have not reached out to the other 3. I have spoken with each one to confirm.

Fleisch, Imker and Learnard have advanced degrees in their respective fields. Each of them have worked for large corporations and understand the importance of sharing ideas, working as a team and pulling together.
I am not sure you share those same experiences or have an understanding of these principles. You can learn from them, and they can learn from you.

You can not continue to fight with council. It didn't work when you were a council member and now that you have been elected mayor, it is not working either. Also, waiting to November, getting someone to run against Imker that you have hand selected may not work either plus you are wasting valuable time playing politics and not attending to the city's business in an effective manner.

2-If you feel its important to post on The Citizen, I suggest you keep your posts to only the facts without throwing stones or even mentioning other council members which you do almost always.

3-When reporting the facts, please understand that others may see it differently and you need to acknowledge that. Your understanding of something might be different than someone else. That requires 2 things:

A-Flexibility and ability to change
B-Humility with understanding that you may not always be right

People reading and posting on these blogs appear to be angry with you and it appears that want change. I think that if you do not make the effort, you might find an opposite reaction in the November election where Sturbaum is voted out and 2 new citizens are elected who are independent in thinking, also highly intelligent and refuse to play games forcing a 4 to 1 vote instead of the current 3 to 2 vote. That will mostly be followed with your ouster as mayor in the following election.

One thing we agree on is that this next election is very important. There are people that can help you with your lack of experience in managing processes and people to accomplish shared goals for Peachtree City.

Doug
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What are you trying to accomplish, Mr. Sussberg?

You're rubbing the mayor's nose in his do-do with the same letter over and over again. What's the point?

I have to go with Cal Beverly and say wipe the slate clean and find five competent people who can put petty differences aside and work on the people's business. You're not on of those people, Mr. Sussberg.

Kim Learnard and Eric Imker have been big disappointments constantly bickering with the mayor. Learnard loves raising our taxes and Imker doesn't do much of anything but make biting comments - like Mr. Sussberg - at council meetings and play in Monopoly tournaments.

Out of the five, keep Doug Sturbaum. At least Sturbaum can vote his conscience and go on to the next agenda item without pitching a hissy fit.

L.Sussberg
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Doug-Bad_PTC-RWM

Doug and Bad_PTC
Not to worry, I have no intention of running. You might think I am interested since this is the same tactic Haddix used during his 2 years as a council member, but trust me I have no interest. But why is ok when the mayor does it. Is it ok that he lie and mis-report information to make others look bad?

The citizens need to be aware of whats' really going on and citizens need to point out the mis-information (and lies) when it is presented. Its unacceptable in Washington DC and its unacceptable in Peachtree City.

In fact, posting this letter 5 times accomplished nothing...Mayor Haddix is back finger-pointing at the 3 council members with inaccurate information in a response to SPQR.

Maybe Haddix's political games are ok for you, and actually sometimes they are amusing but I know Peachtree City can do better than what we currently have and during all of this time is being wasted.

Mayor Haddix defines his role as the CEO of Peachtree City (he said that in a recent blog)..that said, I do not know any CEO who finger points, and plays these games for political advantage. Atleast, not any successful companies...old business saying.."when the fish stinks, it stinks from the head down"

Thank you

PTC Observer
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L. Sussberg - Point

A point of clarification here if you please, what is your point in re-posting? Is it in some vain hope that Mayor Haddix will answer you? He won’t. Do you believe that your letter is in some way illuminating to those having followed this board? It isn’t.

It doesn't bother me that you re-post, I am just trying to figure out your motive. What's the point?

Mayor Haddix is doing a masterful job at getting unelected. Why in the world would you want to get in the way of this process with logical well thought out arguments?

L.Sussberg
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PTC Observer

Yes, I hoped he would read and think about it.
Shame on me for wishful thinking..it appears I have only aroused a few remaining supporters. The best one was being accused of being a liberal..

However, will continue to point out mis information..like the one today where he did not properly post the total budget numbers in response to Kim Hamm's editorial on the dive team. Of course, only 1 time.

Thank you

mthom5436
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Re-Posting

I have been reading these blogs fairly regularly for a while now and I don't think I have ever seen Mr. Haddix re-post something. Especially not multiple times a day for almost a week.

Knock it off.

Robert W. Morgan
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No Doug, you have it backwards

but then again you are one of those brown clown sniffers, so no surprise.

Doug Sturnbaum needs to go, he votes the way Haddix does - without question. Imker can stay if he keeps preventing the mayor from doing stupid things and Kim is the best thing that has happened on city council since Annie McMennamin. She (meaning Kim) will be our next mayor.
Glad I was able to set you straight.

Now I do have to agree Mr. Sussberg is a bit obsessed with that letter, posting twice a day it seems, but I guess he is sincere. It is good advice for the mayor, BTW.

bad_ptc
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Fourth appearance for "A Letter to Mayor Haddix"

Mr. Sussberg what is your point of re-re-re-posting the same letter?

You're getting as bad as the Mayor himself posting over and over and over again.

The Mayor ignored you the first three times you posted it. Do you think he’ll change his mind if it pops up for a fifth time?

Robert W. Morgan
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Well he hasn't posted anything for over a week

so that is something. Now all he has to do is have one on one meetings with the 3 councilpeople to establish a working relationship and all of Larry's wishes will have come true.

Hope springs eternal that our mayor has seen the light and is embarking on his new persona filled with sweetness and light. Ahhhhh yes, breathe in that fresh air. Life is good in Peachtree City. You see? We all can get along. Can we play violin music on here? Love in Bloom has always been a favorite of mine.

carbonunit52
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A letter to carbonunit52

Dear Mr. Unit,

Please be wary about getting involved with PTC politics, even when only reading the blogs and articles. I have observed otherwise reasonable people become irrational, and irrational people start to think that they are indeed rational beyond any previously known limits. All of the worst cases have involved people with advanced educations and an elevated social status, which turns out to be good news for you, being the dumb looking scarred up mule that you are.
You want to be especially careful when posting comments on the Citizen regarding the local politics of PTC, because, well to put it bluntly, you just do not know what you are talking about. You have been here only three years, not nearly long enough to know the nuances and imbroglios required to have an informed opinion, even if you had the necessary wits. Whatever you do, stay away from humor, it will fly like the proverbial lead balloon. Besides all of that, someone as sensitive as yourself is bound to get their feelings hurt. Think of what it would look like if you were discovered hiding under your bed after a particularly brutal exchange. Just don’t go there.

PTC Observer
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Carbonunit52 - Your

Your footnote is one of my favorite of Alexander Pope's

You should give him some credit for it so others can become interested in reading some of his works. One of which was is "An Essay on Criticism".

"'Tis hard to say, if greater Want of Skill
Appear in Writing or in Judging ill,
But, of the two, less dang'rous is th' Offence,
To tire our Patience, than mis-lead our Sense
Some few in that, but Numbers err in this,
Ten Censure wrong for one who Writes amiss;
A Fool might once himself alone expose,
Now One in Verse makes many more in Prose."

Yes, a few on this board could learn from this great poet.

PTC Observer
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Mr. Sussberg - What

What you are suggesting here is that Mayor Haddx change his personality.

I don't think this will happen too soon, so don't get your hopes up.

Mayor Haddix will continue to self-destruct, it's in his nature.

Robert W. Morgan
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Mr. Haddix inspires me to say something "I was wrong"

If you had told me 2 short years ago that I would be saying this, I would have laughed in your face. But here goes:

I was wrong to oppose Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee for President. I would rather she be President. Her moderately crazy liberal ideas were less than perfect, but she isn't completely incompetent and clueless. I wish she were our President.

I was wrong to vote against Cyndi Plunkett. I would rather have her as Mayor. Her past voting record was less than perfect, but she isn't completely nuts and out of control. I wish she were our Mayor.

I am certain that someone else will have a similar confession about Jack Smith and possibly Eric Maxwell, but that is in the future.

The point being, be careful what you wish for when you are overcome with the anti-incumbent fever. Sometimes the devil you know is better for the country/state/county/city. Continuity, experience, credibility, institutional memory, stuff like that.

Spear Road Guy
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You're Usually Wrong Morgan

Cindy Plunkett's record was the pits. That's your long term memory failing again!!!

Robert W. Morgan
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Memory is a tricky thing, but Cyndi would be a better mayor

Her votes were too pro-developer and she seemed influenced by Harold when she was new on council.
I did see her grow out of that a little bit, although she was quick to run away from lawsuits - as is current council.

However, if she were mayor instead of Haddix, she would be running the meetings in a more dignified manner, she would be very open to meeting one on one with the other ladies and Doug and I can't imagine her blogging on here, creating the DAPC mess or us having to read letters from her spouse in The Citizen. I also think she would not have poked a sharp stick in the eye of ARC or insulted the mayor of Fayetteville.

Perfect - no. Better -yes.

Chris P. Bacon
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I seriously doubt it, Robert

Cyndi Plunkett didn't have what it takes to be an effective leader. She was exasperating, trying to please everyone. Her term on the city council played out like a badly written Greek tragedy. Given a choice between Option A and Option B, Cyndi would go on record as supporting Option A, only to come back 2 weeks later and announce that after much angst and soul-searchin' she would now reluctantly support Option B.

(Sadly, Option A was almost always a populist choice and Option B was inevitably a developer-friendly choice).

Plunkett is gone, but her shameful legacy of the myriad of traffic signals on Highway 54 between the Avenue and Wynnmeade lives on. You'll recall some folks were calling this area the "Cyndi Plunkett Memorial Red Light District".

Robert W. Morgan
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Nevertheless, Cyndi would be a better mayor

Voting for a couple of unneeded red lights as a councilperson is irrelevant to how she would perform as mayor. And all I said is that she would be a better mayor than the one we now have. How high a bar is that?

bad_ptc
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RWM and Cyndi

Granted the bar is set just low enough that Cyndi would find a way to trip over it.

You need to remember than “Buffalo Bob” Plunkett talked out of both sides of her mouth so much she could have been a ventriloquist.

Let's just stay on track to remove Doug and get Beth elected.

Then we can just have Kim replace Don and things will start to look up.

Robert W. Morgan
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Beth ousting Doug is indeed the priority

Hope someone has told her and that she is actually running. It is too early to formally announce, but by May she should.

Kim as mayor would really be a good thing. She can be a shoo-in if she uses the next 18 months to be a true champion of economic development - get Grisham funded properly and his agreement extended and broadened to include Industrial. She can do some of that with a 3-2 vote, but after Beth gets sworn in, she can really move forward.

mudcat
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Well, I told you so. I voted for both Cyndi and Beth

Got to believe things would be better in the city with Don and Eric sitting at home writing letters to the editor and Cyndi and Beth at council meetings running things. I'm sure Beth will run next time, not sure about Cyndi, but I will encourage her.

At least we have a new city manager who seems to know what he is doing.

L.Sussberg
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Mudcat-Imker

Hi Mudcat,

Eric was the one who kept the council focused on the financial problems of PTC. The more we close the gap, the better off we are. We need someone on council who remains fiscally prudent and to keep the city focused on balancing the budget.

Personally, in the coming election I hope he switches posts and runs against Sturbaum and wins, then Beth runs for Imker's old post and wins!

Our mayor is focused on getting his 3 to 2 vote and he will have candidates running for his "control". Sturbaum plus one other in Eric's post.

Robert W. Morgan
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Sussman - Imker

Would it not be more efficient for Beth to run against Sturnbaum and have Eric defend his seat against whoever Haddix sends forth? That way both Beth and Eric are beneficiaries of the anti-Haddix movement which seems to be growing.

L.Sussberg
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RWM - B.Pullias & E.Imker

It doesn't matter to me, but I support Eric Imker and Beth Pullias.
I know Beth will do a great job...very smart, clear thinker and independent.
Eric on the other hand, has proven himself as someone who will keep a clear focus on the city's financial situation which PTC needs and I also like his ability to clearly analyze situations then show flexibility in making decisions that are good for our city. No politics, just good decision making!
Haddix (Mr. & Mrs.) have been beating up Imker lately for "not keeping his promises", but the world is not black and white and we need people who can be flexible and make good decisions, not silly political types who keep promises even when they are bad for our city.
Remember, Imker's and Sturbaum's seats are up for re-election in November. Haddix is playing poltics now so Sturbaum gets re-elected plus 1 additional council seat in his favor.
I'm happy if both run and both win seats! That makes for a very strong council. Then, in the next election we can focus on Learnard for mayor!

Robert W. Morgan
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There are others as well, Larry S

Beth is certainly at the top of my list and I can see Eric's value as well. I do think that this election will attract other viable candidates and I really look forward to that. I think there is a higher level of awareness among the citizens than any time since Brown drew 6 opponents for his second term. I think economic development is the key issue those running for council need to focus upon.

Keeping Haddix irrelevant is as important as keeping Obama's hands out of the cookie jar in Washington. Both are dangerous in their own way. We can actually do something locally by vetting candidates properly and preventing any alliances that set the city backwards. Doug will almost surely not run again unless he breaks totally with Haddix, but he needs to do that soon.

Again, we shall see some good people stepping up this election. And then - Kim for Mayor next time - you bet!

Spyglass
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Just fix the courts..

and quit bickering about it.

BHH
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This sounds reasonable to me.

I think it's a very good price.

There should be tennis courts at every park in the county.

Has there been any more talk of the proposed equestrian facility on 92 near Inman rd?

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Clarifications on Tennis

Before outsourcing to Cannongate the Tennis Center daily operations were in the red. Now they are in the black with a minimum per year to the City regardless of whether Cannogate makes a profit or not.

Just within the main building they are spending $161,000 on improvements.

The Center is not under Leisure Services Commission control in any manner. Cannongate runs the operation.

The Tennis Center was a money hole from day one. It got worse over time.

That is why I pushed in 2008 to outsource it. No stumbling around waiting for Imker or Fleisch, Della. But it wasn't until 2009 it happened due to public pressure and being an election year. A 3-2 became a 5-0.

Then the use and reputation began to turn around. The citizen complaints have gone away. It has been turning around ever since.

Della, there was no tip toeing. I spoke up first disagreeing with Imker. I said the courts had to be fixed correctly. I said this was a city responsibility and expense. I stated the CVB had its functions, needed its funding and no authority or other entity was a "piggy bank" for the City. The others agreed and so then Imker agreed.

Imker and I spoke the most on the issue. But it was not an argument, just a debate.

Try as you will the changes and improvements at the Tennis Center did not begin on this Council nor with the Majority on the last Council. They began with the Minority then and nothing has changed on the agreements, etc, since.

The ice storm caught us all flat footed. There was no way to anticipate it. It caused a lot of expenses in many areas of PTC and in many ways.

As far as debating Imker on Budget issues, I come at things from having run all facets of a business for 20 years, meaning income, expenditure, marketing, customer relations, etc. Imker was in the Federal government on the expenditure side. So yes, we have very different views on the Big Picture.

GAltant
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Haddix vs Imker-LIES

Mr & Mrs Haddix
Are your repeated attacks on Imker based upon the fact that he is up for re-election in November? We don't see you attacking Learnard or Fleisch as much. Are you worried that Imker might run against Sturbaum? Especially since you are encouraging Sturnbaum and Connor to run so you get a 3 to 2 control?

In reviewing Imker's background on the PTC website, I see he was in the military but you are claiming he spent his career on the "spend side of the Federal Government". On the website it shows he has advanced degrees and worked for Panasonic and the auto industry...I think he spent much more time in industry than the Federal Government

Why are you lieing about Mr. Imker's background when its clearly posted on the PTC website?

In this post concerning the repairs to the tennis center, you claim you have 20 years experience working in business but on the PTC website you do not reveal what that experience is like the others?

What is your 20 year business experience?

dawgday
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Misrepresentation

Simple - misrepresenting truth is what Dandy Don does - aka lie. Yes Dandy Don, please do tell us what your successful business experience is. You put all sorts of garbage out here on the blogs, lets see what your real experience happens to be.

moelarrycurly
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.

.

Mike King
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Mayor

"That is why I pushed in 2008 to outsource it. No stumbling around waiting for Imker or Fleisch, Della" Imker and Fleish were not on council in 2008 Don, could this be another 'half truth'?

Seems that this is what the CVB was designed to pay for, as Imker stated.

You really need to clean up your act!

Citizen_Steve
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Tennis Center

Don, thanks for your leadership in getting the Tennis Center going in the right direction. And thanks also to Randy Gaddo and others for their contributions.

It was maddening to experience the inaction of the prior city council who for years refused to deal with the Tourism Association's mismanagement of the facility.

I also hear positive feedback about the Tennis Center. There's still a long way to go but we seem to be going in the right direction.

NUK_1
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Agree on Tennis Center

I supported the idea when Haddix proposed it and some didn't want to even consider it, but the economy nationally, locally, all the losses at Tennis Center with no end in sight, and dwindling city coffers made it suddenly happen. Having to cut services pretty sharply with the grass-cutting outsourcing and an election year were factors, but the City had ZERO business trying to run tennis center when that's definitely something that the expertise of a private company like Cannongate already does and much better than PTC could ever dream of doing.

On this issue, I am and have been in total agreement with Haddix. As far as I'm concerned, it's a very significant achievement to turn a gaping money-pit of losses into something that not only stopped the red ink but also made the Tennis Center better in the process. Win all-around.

Mike King
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Mayor

"I come at things from having run all facets of a business for 20 years, meaning income, expenditure, marketing, customer relations, etc." Care to elaborate on the success of that business or perhaps its current status Mr Mayor? Surely you wouldn't stretch the truth, now would you?

Face the fact that you were advised early on to privatize the Tennis Center by myself and others, but somehow now you make it to be an original thought. You were also advised to privatize the Kedron pool and the Amphitheatre due to operating in the red, and the city still runs both and both are in the red. Care to comment?

As far as debating Imker on budget issues, I would suggest you find a tutor for you have no clue.

Citizen_Steve
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Mike

Mike, agreed the tennis center changes were not new ideas, they'd been floating out there for years. And city council for years did not address them.

Say what you will but Mayor Haddix was instrumental in addressing the problem. Maybe it would have happened without him - I'd like to think that simply having clear thinkers on council without motivation for personal goals would allow issues like this to be tackled on a regular basis. But unfortunately history in PTC shows otherwise.

In my book the best leadership is the ability to effect changes exactly like this turnaround of the Tennis Center.

GAltant
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1

1

Don Haddix
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Haddix: They Knew

I know for a fact Fleisch has had a copy of the Contract for awhile.

Learnard was at the CVB as well, the night before, where this was also discussed.

The Tennis Center has been discussed before in different settings. So all were aware.

So fiscal perspective has a lot to do with thinking.

Like with taxes, I understand how X impacting Y in turn impacts X. Take money away from the consumer results in less spending hence less sale tax in return.

Here the CVB is funded to perform a mission, which includes expanding its mission as past successes bring in more funds. Skimming off those additional funds stops expansion which stops future successes which reduces economic growth for the one who did the skimming.

Mike King
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For Goodness Sake!

"Like with taxes, I understand how X impacting Y in turn impacts X. Take money away from the consumer results in less spending hence less sale tax in return."

Are we going from prevarication to a lingo only known to Haddix? Or could it be that writing a coherent sentence is beyond his grasp?

Keep throwing rocks Don, and sooner or later you'll get one back in the mouth.

roundabout
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SONNET -- on prevarication

Using nice words to criticize others,
Is in itself an oxymoron doomed to fail.
The real problem with it is who it bothers.
For using nice words does one go to jail?

I lie, you say, no, but you do prevaricate!
Then if I were the prevaricator, I would lie.
I would pretend to know what you enunciate,
I would alter the question to win a bye.

Bands of provocatures falling upon the man,
Just as if he had never for the office ran.
And carried around with him a large Quaran,
And was of the color of a certain GA band.

Paul, the hair-lipped tax collector,
With his faults was a good rector.

roundabout
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Mike: Xs and Ys

The Mayor is pulling a "dollar" on you. you do remember dollar?

He say confusicatin thangs which air true but hit air mixed!

I mire hem mor and mor! He dont not sufer fools stuff vary muche.
Menny in thet thar yob wood go ape. It air unthankful. Thet is whye we nede a city manger tipe uf governence wif a politic Mayor eatin ruber chikin.
Thet way thu mayor and council cud hounde the hire man!

Be kinda lak letin NATO and the Italies handl the Libia thang but we air thu powr ahind the thang! (dont fool nobody.

GAltant
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HADDIX AND LACK OF LEADERSHIP

Haddix,
Each time you come on this blog, your critics come out.

I know you believe its all about being "anti-Haddix" but as I read the comments from different peple they are very specific about your behavoir.

Mine is always about your lack of leadership based upon 2 issues:

1-You are a liar and you have been recently been caught regarding your wife's comments to Mr. Grisham.

2-You always are the first to thorw rocks at fellow council members which shows lack of leadership and professional training.

Why do you keep acting this way? Let's set aside the liar situation for now and only focus on the leadership issue. Why do you keep throwing rocks at other council members? Do you think that's what the leader of our city should be doing? Don't you realize that you embarrass yourself and show others what a little person you are by doing this and not taking the high road?

I keep hoping that fellow council members will come on this blog and respond to you. They don't hoping that the citizens will see you for who you are with the hopes that you will bury yourself.

Apparently, there are those here who still support your behavior which is why you keep posting here

How about a new approach. You post only the facts, and throw no rocks in the process. Can you be a "big" boy and try that?

Spyglass
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He's just not professional enough

to not make an argument of his own without throwing his counterparts under the bus. Usually when this happens, it's yourself that gets run over.

It's that simple.

As for the other Council members coming on here, thankfully they have refrained.

Robert W. Morgan
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"New approach/" Big Boy" Nawwww, but an idea emerges

It would be nice if he did as you say, but ego and limited comprehension skills get in the way. But there is a glimmer of an idea coming out of this. I know the censure thing has been discussed before, and obviously discarded by 4 spineless councilpeople, but how about this idea - create a limited censure that prevents Haddix from discussing the other councilpeople by name or commenting on their actions here on these blogs or in the newspaper.

I think something like that, while very limited in nature is a big step forward. That type of censure tells him that they disapprove of public venting, resent him using their names and set the stage for future censures or other actions if he persists in being a butt - which he will. How about it? Kim? Vanessa? Eric?

It just takes one little step. Surely, you don't support trash talking from your mayor. Let's make at least one small move to correct. It is sort of like raising a child, or maybe exactly like that. Go for it! Whoever does can easily be the next mayor.

NUK_1
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What about the 1st Amendment?

If Haddix wants to continually go the ex-Mayor Steve Brown route of always harping on other council members or anyone who disagrees, the voters will easily toss him away just like they did Brown in PTC. Frankly, even if he shut up between now and his re-election, I think he loses big. He's made permanent enemies of 3 of the council members and even had 'ol Doug vote against him twice recently.

I don't see any grounds to "censure" Haddix. What he says and does I think often falls under "really damn dumb" or "sorely lacking intelligence or comprehension," but that's hardly new to politicians or some type of crime. Trying to censure him for running off at the mouth would only martyr him to some as a victim of nasty politics. Embarrassing himself or even PTC is hardly grounds for censure.

Robert W. Morgan
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All true, NUK. Let's censure his allies instead.

Censure his allies by electing someone else to council. 4-1 votes pave the way to getting things done. Even a workable economic development effort.

Beth beats "Me too" Sturnbaum easily in a 2-person race. I could live with Imker staying since he at least tries to put the brakes on spending. Mark Hollums is a winner as well, hope he and Beth don't run for the same seat.

First Amendment is overrated. There should be provision for excessive stupidity when the person has a responsible job and that stupidity affects other people's well-being.

roundabout
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Setting Qualifications for a Mayor!

It is stupid. after a legitimate election of a Mayor, to continually want him to resign or change to your way of thinking!
There are consequences to elections!

No where in the rules of who can be elected Mayor does it say that he or she must act like some kind of flag bearer for the thoughts of those who didn't vote for him.

No where does it say that an elected Mayor must be as smart as some of those who voted against him. No where does it say that he must be dumber than those who voted against him.
It appears that there are lot of those.

No where does it say that he must be as slick as was say "Tricky Dick," Nixon, and write correspondence better than say roundabout does.
And let's face facts; if a half African with a Hawaiian birth certificate can be President of the United States, then a half Indian can certainly be Mayor of PTC!

Do Native Americans have to prove that their ancestors were born in the USA? Did Cochese and Sitting Bull have to provide "papers?" (Not really we put their type into compounds like Guantanamo!)

I'll bet Captain John Smith asked Powatan for his papers, first thing, since he was interested in his 13 year old daughter Poca. (this may not all be correct.)

BHH
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Morons

Every one of you.

It's very refreshing to see public officials interacting on this site.

It's nice to have access.

mudcat
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Interaction among public officials? Not!

The interaction is between Haddix and King. Then there is Brown and everyone else.

If you want interaction among public officials, you need to get the ladies from PTC and at the very least Frady and Horgan from the county to participate. That would be interaction. What we have now is diatribes followed by personal attacks.

GAltant
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BHH

You need to read the comments more carefully.
No one is saying he shouldn't interact, its how he interacts.

He comes on here to throw rocks at others.
I guess you like that!!!!

NUK_1
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Public Official Interaction

Anyone can interact on here, but when an elected official(or anyone else)state their opinion as a "fact" instead of being an opinion, attempt to weasel out of the Grisham situation by playing word games instead of simply being honest from the start; when they never fail to attack other councilmembers who have shown that they have a difference of opinion from his, frequently blame The Citizen for bad reporting when his own actions cast him in an unfavorable light, refusal to admit errors like the minutes, etc.etc. what are we supposed to do, BHH? Blindly accept it like sheeple simply because a public official aka "public servant" posts on The Citizen's website? Whoopie!

This website isn't a propaganda forum for Steve Brown and Don Haddix or anyone else to say whatever the hell they feel like and expect it to go unchallenged.

BHH
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I'm sorry for the strong language

I forgot you're not all morons.
Some are just clowns.

PTC politics and other babel.
It's mostly just so much ado about nothing.

Robert W. Morgan
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Missing the point BHH. It is ok for you to be the fool on here,

but not the mayor, Some of us would prefer that the elected ceremonial mayor of our very fine city have the maturity and professionalism to represent us with dignity. I realize that is not in his oath of office (or perhaps his character), but it should be. Blogging derogatory things about fellow elected officials with whom he is supposed to work with for the betterment of our city is not dignified, professional or appropriate. That is my point of council creating a limited censure on the mayor's ham-handed communication.

Consider 2 very important points and then tell me the city council has no right or obligation to step in and censure Haddix at the next meeting:
1. Some of you may think these blogs are read only by the 20 people who blog on here. Fact is that readership is widespread an includes county and state government officials with whom the mayor may have to interact. Under the guise of Homeland Security and with the help of NSA, the CIA and God knows who else, the feds are looking at us as well. Industry considering relocation used to subscribe to local newspapers and have them mailed out of state for up to a year before they made a decision - now of course, this can all be done thru the internet. Who among us wants to have our whole city judged by these foolish and ill-conceived electronic rants?
2. None of the 4 councilpeople blog on here, nor does the mayor and council of any other city, no one from the county or the State - except Dennis Chase and Steve Brown and they don't count. So why is that Mr. Haddix is smarter than all the rest of those people.

BHH, you and roundabout and bonkers and the rest can say stupid and sometimes funny things and it is fine. I submit to you that our mayor should be above all that. He has a serious and important job to do. I'd prefer he spend his time on that and not the back stabbing missives.

BHH
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Point taken

I lend you some credence.

He is still a citizen of PTC and can't help that he has a passion for it.

It's his choice if he wants to make use of this forum. The others have every right to do the same. If they censure him they in effect censure themselves. If they give him enough rope then he hangs himself.

So why not let it be?

Robert W. Morgan
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Thanks for the credence, BHH, but its a bad moon arising

when the mayor or any elected official uses a public forum to diss his co-elected officials. Sure if council censures his communications that discuss the actions of council, it should work in reverse - meaning they can't dump on him. Of course those with class have never done that, so an all-encompassing communication censure would be fine.

The voice of rage and ruin is not what we need from our mayor. Kim! Please do something. The others are spineless.

Ninja Guy
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Chief Haddix Still Making Sense!!

Overcoming several head-long charges into defeat recently, Chief Haddix continues to make sense on some important issues of the day!

If the Tennis Center is not under LSC, then don't tap their money for repairs!

Hail To the Chief!

Chris P. Bacon
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Canongate gets the revenue, PTC gets the expenses?

So Canongate gets the revenue and PTC eats the expenses?

What's wrong with this picture?

Other municipal courts get repair work done every 5 years, yet the Tennis center muscles their way to the head of the line?

MYTMITE
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How much money will having these meets here bring in? Such as

hotel revenue, using local restaurants, etc? That probably has a lot of bearing on these courts being repaired. Also, if we have committed to having this function here it would be a black eye for PTC to back out because our courts were subpar or try to use the courts that were damaged. We do not want to lose other venues that may be interested in coming here by making a poor showing in this instance. I am not a tennis player or really a tennis fan but we have made a commitment and should honor it.

Mike King
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Chris P

Our boy Haddix signed the contract, what else would you expect?

roundabout
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Mike: Tennis collections?

Just how much have we collected into the till from the Canongate people?

Is it one of them deals like makin movies, where somebody who is supposed to get a cut above profits only, but there never is any profits? (accordin to thu books).

And, why wood the Canongates spend muny on insides of building but want us to pay for court maintenance---ceptin the clay stuff which they don't trust wif us?

If I were city and couldn't run a tennis courts I wood be shamed! Maybe canongates wood lak also the Amphitheater? How about Police and Fire?

Citizen_Steve
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Vanessa is right, save the tournaments

At one time our tennis center was a nationally recognized facility and hosted top level junior tournaments, but has largely been in decline for the last several years due to scandal, stubborn pride and mismanagement (read the Citizen archives).

Since the PTC Rec commission & Canongate took over things are clearly turning around - let's not reverse the trend now. I agree with Vanessa but also Imker about the source of the funds.

Steve

della
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Vanessa Right and Imker Right as Usual

I concur Steve Citizen. Vanessa is right. We would lose future tournament opportunities and it would be almost impossible to get them back if we don't fix the courts. I see Imker once again looking out for the city's financials. Everything he does gets the refreshing approach as to what is it going to cost us, the taxpayers. I wish more politicians were like that. He makes proposals, as in this article, that make absolute sense. Mr. Bacon above says, Canongate gets the revenue and PTC eats the expenses. Well if you dive into Imker's thinking, its really the Convention and Visitors Bureau that gets the revenue - from increased hotel tax money. That's why Imker suggested the CVB contribute to fixing the courts. Everything that guy says makes sense. Have you heard him at council meetings? When the others are stumbling around trying to tip toe their way around Imker comes in with a bunch of options, offers them without bias, let's the council members decide for themselves and then --- this is the most important part --- supports the decision made. No backstabbing like someone we all know. I'd like to see Haddix and Imker go head to head on finances. No contest.

Citizen_Steve
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Imker

I sure hope Imker doesn't decide to run for mayor. He's too valuable to us to be wasting his time fielding all of the "stones" that would be thrown at him.

Steve

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