Line Creek project: 4 ‘junior’ big boxes proposed for Hwy. 54W.

Drawing and aerial photo of proposed retail development on Peachtree City's west side. The graphic is from the information packet provided by the Peachtree City Planning Commission.

UPDATED for print 03-16-11 — A proposal to build a 134,000-square-foot shopping center at the corner of Ga. Highway 54 West and Planterra Way got first public exposure in a workshop Monday night by the Peachtree City Planning Commission.

The proposal includes a request for the city to sell Line Creek Court, the short road and cul-de-sac that stubs out from Line Creek Drive. Without Line Creek Court, the city’s road setback rules would trim down Trinity Development’s ability to make the development happen as proposed.

Trinity is not asking to acquire the right of way for Line Creek Drive, which would remain a public street.

Trinity’s plan includes four “junior box” retail stores ranging from 20,000 to 28,000 square feet each on the 14.3-acre site. There is also a plan for a restaurant that would have an outdoor dining area overlooking a picturesque view of the Line Creek Nature Area.

Instead of a fully-functioning traffic light on Ga. Highway 54 and Line Creek Drive, a “pedestrian and golf cart blinking light” is being proposed. City staff noted that a request for a full traffic light there, authored by a previous property owner, was later withdrawn.

The property is zoned for general commercial use.

This is the same 14.3-acre site that won approval for a larger shopping center, which never came to fruition, and that approval has since expired.

The property is zoned for general commercial development and is currently owned by a bank, city officials said.

Jim Lowe of LAI Engineering said Trinity will agree to building berms along the rear of the development with landscaping on top to help screen the stores from the adjacent Cardiff Park subdivision.

It was noted that the grade of the stores in the back will be higher than was proposed in a previous version of the plan, so Trinity will have to prove it is adequately screening the area from homeowners at Cardiff Park.

Cardiff Park would also be protected by a 75-foot undisturbed buffer under the city’s relatively new “transition yard” ordinance that is designed to protect residential property from adjacent commercial development.

The City Council is expected to have a future joint meeting with the planning commission, at which council is expected to weigh in on whether it would explore selling Line Creek Court to enable the development.

There was a citizen request to keep as many trees along the highway as possible to help screen the development.

The plan includes 510 parking spaces, the minimum allowed by the city’s parking ordinance, which requires one space for every 250 square feet of gross floor area.

The commission also thoroughly discussed the possibility of creating an access road through the site that would extend westward to the Shoppes at the Village Piazza shopping center. That road might also connect to Planterra Way, but that is likely to face opposition from residents of the nearby Planterra Ridge subdivision.

================================

TUESDAY ONLINE VERSION — A proposal to build a 134,000 square foot shopping center at the corner of Ga. Highway 54 West and Planterra Way was vetted in a workshop Monday night by the Peachtree City Planning Commission.

The plan includes four “junior box” retail stores ranging from 20,000 to 28,000 square feet each. There is also a plan for a restaurant that would have an outdoor dining area overlooking a picturesque view of the Line Creek Nature Area, which is owned by the city.

Instead of a traffic light on Ga. Highway 54 and Line Creek Drive, a “pedestrian and golf cart blinking light” is being proposed. City staff noted that a request for a full traffic light there, authored by a previous property owner, was later withdrawn.

The development plan hinges on whether or not the City Council will agree to sell Trinity Development the current right-of-way for Line Creek Court, a small stub street/cul de sac that extends off the end of Line Creek Drive.

Without that land, the city’s road setback rules will trim down Trinity’s ability to make the development happen as proposed. Beyond that, however, the size of the development is well under the threshold that would set off the special use permit process, meaning that as long as the development meets all city ordinances and gets planning commission approval the property can be developed since it is zoned for general commercial use.

Trinity is not asking to acquire the right of way for Line Creek Drive, which would remain a public street. This is the same 14.3 acre site that won approval for a larger shopping center, which never came to fruition, and that approval has since expired.

The property is zoned for general commercial development and is currently owned by a bank, city officials said.

Jim Lowe of LAI Engineering said Trinity will agree to building berms along the backside of the development with landscaping on top to help screen the stores from the adjacent Cardiff Park subdivision.

It was noted that the grade of the stores in the back will be higher than was proposed in a previous version of the plan, so Trinity will have to prove it is adequately screening the area from homeowners at Cardiff Park.

Cardiff Park would also be protected by a 75-foot undisturbed buffer under the city’s relatively new “transition yard” ordinance that is designed to protect residential property from adjacent commercial development.

The City Council is expected to have a future joint meeting with the planning commission, at which council is expected to weigh in on whether it would explore selling Line Creek Court to enable the development.

There was a citizen request to keep as many trees along the highway as possible to help screen the development.

The plan includes 510 parking spaces, the minimum allowed by the city’s parking ordinance, which requires one space for every 250 square feet of gross floor area.

=========================================

Earlier online version of story posted Monday morning

It’s back — the controversial 14-acre commercial development on Ga. Highway 54 West, next to Planterra Ridge. But this time it’s a different developer — Trinity Development — asking input from the Peachtree City Planning Commission on a proposed 134,760-square-foot retail center.

Also different this time: the center would feature four “junior anchor retail stores, each of which would be less than 32,000 square feet,” according to a staff memo to the Planning Commission.

The planners will hear the new pitch tonight (March 14) at City Hall during a workshop session.

“A freestanding retail building would be located at the intersection of SR 54 and Line Creek Drive,” the staff memo says. “A multi-tenant retail building and a freestanding restaurant would be located between Line Creek drive and the Line Creek Nature Area. Access from SR 54 would be provided via the existing Line Creek Drive which would remain a public street.”

The extremely controversial abandonment of two existing city streets to the previous developer of the site is also being sought.

“The applicant has indicated they will be requesting that City Council abandon the existing Line Creek Court and associated right of way,” the staff memo says. “The development would be separated from Cardiff Park by a 75-foot undisturbed buffer as required by the Transition Yard Buffer Ordinance. It appears that all other building and parking setbacks as identified within the GC General Commercial zoning ordinance would be adhered to. The applicant is providing a total of 510 parking spaces.”

The previous development agreement for the 14 acres — already zoned for commercial use — expired without the developer doing anything with the property.

The Planning Commission will also consider restricting so-called “walking signs” rather than banning outright the hand-held signs used by many businesses to advertise special sales.

City staff is recommending the commission approve requiring a temporary special use permit for each “walking advertising” sign under the city’s outdoor display ordinance.

The walking signs issue will be considered by the City Council at its April 7 meeting.

bad_ptc
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Shopping Ctr. What ever you do make damn sure

that there is a connection to Planterra Way in whatever plan you allow.

None of this 'well maybe in the future' crap. If it gets built it gets connected to Planterra Way. End of subject, no backing down.

GAltant
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RWM,NUK,MIKE KING, and the rest

It appears that Haddix is monitoring this thread as you can see belo

Let' see who decides to run for council. Clearly Don knows that there are those who will mount a campaign against anyone he supports because he is seeking rubber stamps so he can control. Hopefully smart thinkers like Beth and others will run. People he can not control.

I'm sure he is pushing D. Conner since he has promised the old DAPC buddies that they will be revived and have the power when he gets control of the city council.

If solid, smart and independent thinkers decide to run, the city will be better off but its too soon to tell!

Thanks to all of you, his lies concerning Joey Grisham was smoked out...keeping the pressure on, may force him to be honest, especially if The Citizen is watching too. Contrary to Don's attempt to discredit John and The Citizen.

bad_ptc
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GAltant,RWM,NUK,MIKE KING, etal, It's a no-brainer

Kim runs for Mayor and she wins.

Beth runs for council and she wins.

Problem solved.

Robert W. Morgan
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Yes indeed, we shall see who may run

But usually when there are no hot button issues, the candidate pool is kinda shallow. i agree that Beth needs to run and that alone may prevent a Haddix takeover. No idea who D. Conner is, but therein lies the reason to subject all candidates to serious scrutiny on DAPC, Grisham's departure (which is certain to occur before the election), runaway spending, staffing levels at the city, ARC membership, city charter, big boxes, all the issues. I doubt "allegiance to Haddix" needs to be a litmus test, but that should be clear to most voters that are knowledgeable on the above issues.

I presented a list of smart and independent thinkers who should run for council about a month ago and 2 have said no publicly and a couple of more privately and most just stony silence. Not a good sign. Sure would be nice to see someone under 40 run. Look at Matt Ramsey. Don't we have any more like him?

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Carbonunit

Thank you for your statements. You are correct they are anti-Haddix.

There is so much that could be said but I will not do so.

If you wish to go over any of that please email me at donhaddix@donhaddix.com.

But I will address the claims about the City Charter. Go to the following link and a copy of the City Charter is there. You will see reality and their claims do not agree.

http: //donhaddix.com/showthread.php?p=587#post587

Sec. 2.3. - Duties and authority of mayor.
The mayor shall be the chief executive officer of said city and it shall be his duty:

That is followed by 13 duties unique to being Mayor. They are far from being ceremonial. They include City Manager oversight.

Subject to the limitations contained in this Charter, the said mayor shall exercise general supervision and jurisdiction over the affairs of the said city; however, the responsibility for the daily operation and administration of the city shall be delegated to the city manager...

Yes, The City Manager makes sure the departments do their daily routine missions. I ensure the City Manager does his job. I do not want to do his job. I have more than enough to do on my own.

Nor does a City Manager want to do the Mayor's job. They have enough to do on their own.

And note the phrase "daily operation and administration." Issues come in that are not "daily," which then involves me or Council as a whole depending on the nature of the issue. Most just involve me.

The only comment I will make on the leadership comments is that there are five people on Council. None are puppets and all were elected to make their own decisions and votes.

Please research and compare campaign promises made in 2009 to actual votes that have occurred. I have kept my promises. Others cannot make that same claim.

What is really being said here is I am suppose to abandon my promises and principles and just go along with the Majority. Not going to happen.

Ironically if the next Council were to shift Majority positions you would then hear them telling the Minority to stand its ground.

Every election is critical. We need the right candidates.

NUK_1
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PTC Charter

"Yes, The City Manager makes sure the departments do their daily routine missions. I ensure the City Manager does his job. I do not want to do his job. I have more than enough to do on my own."

For about the 10th time....there is NOTHING in the Charter of Peachtree City that states in ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM that *YOU* have sole authority over the City Manager. It simply doesn't say that.

It DOES state that the City Manager is appointed and serves at the pleasure of mayor AND COUNCIL. Notice it doesn't say "just the Mayor." Also.....

"mayor shall exercise general supervision and jurisdiction over the affairs of the said city; however, the responsibility for the daily operation and administration of the city shall be delegated to the city manager who shall report on such activities to the mayor and councilmembers as hereinafter provided."

There it is very clearly again: mayor and councilmembers is who the city manager reports to.

Here's more on the City Mgr:
"Such officer shall be the chief administrative and operational officer of the city and shall perform such executive duties as may be delegated by the mayor and council. The city manager's job performance shall be evaluated and subject to review annually by the mayor and council. "

Performance evaluated and subject to review by Mayor AND COUNCIL. Yet again. Of course, Vanessa Fleisch stated in a recent meeting how only you had anything to do with McMullen's last review, which means either you can't follow the charter or Fleisch was lying for some reason.

Sec 2.12 Council Interference with Administration. This is the biggie that makes PTC a strong city manager/weak Mayor form of government, aka as "council-manager" by some who don't like to be thought of as "weak."

"The city council and its members shall deal with city officers and employees who are subject to the direction and supervision of the city manager solely through the city manager except for purposes of gathering needed information which is of routine matters or is the type of information which such officers and employees can easily and quickly assemble. Except as provided above, the city council and its members shall not give orders directly to such officers and employees, either publicly or privately, but shall coordinate all orders and instructions through the city manager. "

Now, you tell me how the Mayor is a CEO when the city is actually run by the City Manager? Mayor/Council is very much like a Board of Directors in that they set the goals and priorities of the City including financial direction,especially in taxation, revenues/expenditures but the City Mgr implements it. The Board of Directors(Mayor-Council), is over the City Manager and basically can hire or fire him at will, like a CEO.

I know the charter refers to the Mayor as "chief executive officer" which is a misnomer, just like the language used back in the 1950's refers to certain positions like City Manager as "he" because when it was written that was widely assumed to only be the case.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: NUK etal, Closing Statement on this Issue

You can spin it anyway you wish but the City Charter does not support your claims.

The Mayor is not a Council Member. It is Mayor and Council Members.

The following 13 points are duties of the Mayor, not Council Members. Many are supervision of the City Manager. The job description for the City Manage states the supervisor he reports to is the Mayor. The Mayor does the evaluation after consulting with the Council Members.

Yes, the City Manager has the ability to suspend many under him. But so does the Mayor, including City Judges and the City Manager without consulting Council or the City Manager.

The mayor shall be the chief executive officer of said city and it shall be his duty
(1)   To preside at all meetings of the city council;
(2)   To see that all meetings are conducted in a parliamentary manner;
(3)   To preserve order and decorum in such meetings;
(4)   To inflict such punishment upon any person guilty of contempt before said council as may be authorized by municipal ordinances;
(5)   To see that all laws, ordinances, rules, regulations and resolutions of the city council of said city are faithfully executed and enforced;
(6)   To appoint and be an ex officio member of all committees;
(7)   To see that all funds are properly accounted for and that all revenues are properly and promptly collected;
(8)   To inform the council from time to time of the general condition of said city and its affairs and recommend such measures as he may deem necessary or expedient for the welfare of said city;
(9)   To inspect or cause to be inspected by one or more of the council members of said city the records and books of accounts of the city and see that they are properly and correctly kept to require such reports to be made by such city staff and given to the council;
(10)   To see that order is maintained in said city and that its property and effects are preserved;
(11)   To convene the council in extra session as frequently as he may deem proper;
(12)   To bind said city by signing any contract, obligation or other matter entered into and authorized by ordinance or resolution of the council of said city, properly passed in accordance with the provisions of this act; and
(13)   To do acts and things as may be proper and necessary in the proper conduct of the affairs of said city and as may be hereinafter authorized.

As well:
Sec. 2.13. - Appointment of officers by council; removal.
The city council shall at its organizational meeting and thereafter at the discretion of city council appoint a clerk, a city attorney, a city auditor, a city judge, a city manager and any other city positions as required by ordinance. Such appointed individuals, after their initial appointment, need not be reappointed on an annual basis but shall serve subject to the pleasure of the mayor and council and may be removed from office by the council at any time; provided, further, that the mayor may suspend any such individual pending a meeting of the council to make a formal decision on the appropriate action to take.

So argue as much as you want. The City Manager is indeed a critical and key component to PTC, but he is not as all powerful as you are trying to claim. Neither is the Mayor as weak as you pretend.

We have a Council/Manager form of government. But there is no such thing as just one definition for any of the three forms. The role of Mayor varies in each city by city.

Facts are an inconvenient thing when the get in the way. These are facts.

The complete Charter is on my website. Nothing hidden.

NUK_1
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Charter....yet again

You have shown absolutely nothing as usual to back up any your claims on what the Charter actually says. None of anything you just posted or in the actual Charter refutes in any way what I said about the duties of the Mayor and Councilmembers are as well as the City Manager.

I know it was unpleasant to read the examples I gave of what the Charter SAYS and what it does NOT SAY, but you just skipped it and did a copy-and-paste of the 13 duties of Mayor that are largely formalities and totally ignored parts of the Charter you obviously don't like to hear about.

The Charter DOES NOT STATE that the City Manager reports to the Mayor. It states that the City Manager reports to Mayor and COUNCIL. It states that the City Manager is evaluated by Mayor and Council. Now you claim that the City Manager job description states that the City Manager reports to the Mayor. Well,-like I have said over and over-the CHARTER DOES NOT. So, post a link up to the actual City Manager job description and why not the actual contract also?

The Charter DOES state very specifically the duties and responsibilities of Mayor/Council/City Manager. They are very clear to me and I don't see where your utter confusion over it comes from because it's pretty simple language to understand, especially the parts about Council Interference in Administration and who reports to whom.

Mike King
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Don

"The complete Charter is on my website. Nothing hidden."

Why wouldn't the Charter be on the city's website?

tgarlock
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Cut Mayor Haddix some slack

I think those of us interested in local government get a little carried away criticizing those in office, magnifying small differences into evil intent in our own mind.

Mike King is my friend and if he ever calls for help I’ll come running in a heartbeat. But I also know that Don Haddix is a good man and I will never share Mike’s quest for Don’s scalp. Don and I don’t agree on everything, a couple worth shouting about, but we don’t have to always agree to respect each other and I’ll gladly shake his hand next time we meet. If I were mayor (not even at gunpoint) I imagine some of you would be hoping for the death penalty because . . . let’s just say I’m diplomatically impaired, especially face to face, and would make any of Don’s missteps pale in comparison.

We all see the world in a slightly different way, and I think we all would do better to be supportive of those taking the time to serve, and where we disagree we should apply a little restraint. Think about it. These people on the PTC Council have maybe 1/3 of interested citizens throwing rocks at them at any given time while they do the hard work of dealing with tough issues. Even when we disagree, we should be civil, and once in a while we should thank them all. So thanks to Don, Doug, Kim, Eric, and Vanessa for all you do and put up with. Thank God I don’t have to do it.

Which brings up this point. A few of my so-called friends recently threatened to draft me to run for council, and I see on the blogs a couple of them threw my name out there. You’ve got the wrong guy. I don’t have a diplomatic bone in my body, I dislike ceremony and the under-supply of patience I was born with is dwindling fast. I stay away from council meetings because they bore the hell out of me, I have no expertise on city govt, I’m not well informed on the issues and I’d rather take a Maylasian beating than try to sell myself. All I know for sure is I’m sick of govt at all levels trying to be all things to all people and failing to restrict themselves to the few things they MUST do, and the only way to get them to do that is starve the budget. That much I do know.

Instead of trying to draft me you should focus on the many better-informed and willing candidates. At the very top of that list is Beth Pullias.

And when you want to take Don to task on something, why would you use ridicule, taunts and insults? Even on these blogs, wouldn't it be better to confine remarks to the same words you would say if you were looking Don in the eye? I'm sure Mike wouldn't change a word in person but I bet many of you would.

roundabout
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T. Garlock

Treat those "serving" with dignity even while
criticizing their actions. I get it, be darn AFRAID.

Here is what I think maybe some like mud and others here would want as leaders:

A sheriff who kicks people when he meets them--right on the shins. Then points a finger at them and tells them to behave, or his nephew Bubbah will wring his neck before putting him into his wrecked car to be found.

A D.A. who takes NO Action without consulting the courthouse rules as to what ought to be done--kinda like the judges now in question.

Mayors who are from the local only, married to the local only with 5-6 little bubbahs. Friendly socially and otherwise with developers, bankers, and other rich people.
In other words--lak usns!

Commissioners and councilpersons who lie well before an election--kinda like our current Governor.

GAltant
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Terry Garlock

Mr. Garlock, you are a true gentleman. Your post is very well written and so kind.

I would suggest that you take the time to speak to your friend Mike King to understand why he is so opposed to Mayor Haddix. It will be well worth your time.

After speaking to Mike, I propose you speak with Eric, Vanessa or Kim who sit on city council to get more feedback, and if that does not convince you, speak with Mr. Grisham or others in management at city hall so you have a better understanding of how Mr. Haddix operates. Mr. King is on the right track and you should listen to him, or do you own investigation into the truth.

Read Mr. Haddix's recent posts to BHH and Carbonunit (posted today). He stresses how important the next election is. Read carefully, he says that the others on council are not living up to their campaign promises and that this next election is is important because the last election was suppose to correct things.

So, here he is pointing fingers at the others, which now must include Doug Sturbaum who voted against one of Don's recent position on variances which our own economic development manager and city staff asked not to pass. This is the same manager his wife recently attacked at Fresh Market.

The translation of his post, is that he wants elected council members who will vote his way..nothing but total control so he can implement his own agenda for Peachtree City with minority opposition or none!

This is coming from a man who has openly lied on this blog regarding an article published by The Citizen concerning his wife. Isn't honesty and intregity important? Why is not a requirement for leadership and good governance? Why should we give this man any slack based upon the lie that he was caught telling?

If honesty and intregity is not enough to convince you, and if his own statements on this blog where he finger points to the other members of council in an attempt to discredit them to seize control of council in the next election, then listen to your friend Mr. King or do you own research by calling Imker, Learnard, or Fleisch to find out what this man is doing.

You sir, are a true gentleman and your kind words prove what a gentleman you are, but please listen to Mr. King and/or do the research.

Mr Haddix is correct on 1 very important point. This November election is so important. We need to get someone like Beth Pullias elected onto council and we need to find a replacement for Doug Sturbaum who is a very busy person and unfortunately defers to the mayor on too many issues allowing him the 2 to 3 votes he currently gets. Ask one of other three council members about that issue and you will also confirm how important get the right people on council will be.

No one disagrees that Beth Pullias would make an outstanding addition to council. I assure you Mr. Haddix will not agree with you on that point. He will support someone who has been involved with the DAPC and/or someone who will suppport him only. We need smart, independent free thinkers on council.

Watch and see who Haddix endorses in this next election. Meanwhile, please do your research.

Mike King
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Aw Terry...

Talk about taking the fun out of city politics, but you are right in that many in local governments are incaple of dealing with someone who is impaired 'diplomatically' vice intellectually. If they were, governments at each level would function with half the resources and thrice the accomplishments.

carbonunit52
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Let's be nice to Terry Garlock too

Great response Terry. Civil discourse, that's the stuff.

GAltant
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Carbonunit

I agree with all of comments, looking at it from a distance I can see why you feel the way you do, but NUK is right.You have to know the person you are dealing with. He got elected by people who voted for him based upon what they saw on the surface.

Why run candidates against him, because unforunately instead of working as a team player with council to accomplish goals, he plays poltical games and only knows how to win by control. He is seeking candidatess to run for council this year where he can have that total control...a 3 to 2 vote for whatever he wants.

Look at his record clearly for the past year and you will see the pattern of confrontation, lies and games. He finally got caught when he denied his wife said anything when she did and he still could not be honest and admit it.

The facts are there.

BHH
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It's okay Don. Come on over to the country.

If these unrelenting mouth offs continue beating this horse to death. We can use you on the county commission to fill one of the 3 upcoming vacancies in the next election.

How can they continue to fault YOU for being outspoken.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: BHH

The invitation is appreciated.

I do not play down the vital role the Commission plays for Fayette, thus PTC. Nor do I play down the role PTC plays in the County, being 1/3 of the County.

It would be a lie to say I am not tired of being on the wrong end of 3-2 votes. Hopefully the election this year will change that.

The last was supposed to have changed it, but didn't. Promises made versus promises kept.

Whoever runs for Commission must be people who keep their word.

ohmygosh
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Restaurant?

Yeah I'd like to know more about this "Restaurant that would have an outdoor dining area overlooking a picturesque view of the Line Creek Nature Area"

Seriously? So, one can only imagine the astronomical rent this place would have, so the menu would have to be priced so that they COULD pay the rent. Oh it would be high class, fru-fru style, but no one in this town would care at all, because we would instead continue to pack the dining room of your assembly line dining chain franchises. This town has yet to embrace any semblance of sophisticated taste, nor will they ever rally behind and support your locally owned independent restaurant (RIP Maxwell's), much less ever embrace any new concept.

So a restaurant will indeed open, but for only a short time before it too will add to the growing list of vacancies that plague this town. With all the empty buildings along Huddleston, why not claim "Imminent Domain" and tear all that down to create a nice combination residential/commercial area? do we REALLY have to keep building outwards, while leaving a hole here in the center?

Spyglass
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Restaurants that serve quality food

can and will survive in PTC. I frequent one now that is excellent, and it's not cheap by any means, in fact most would consider it expensive. Add to the fact they've already expanded once, and they are expanding again.

SPQR
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Spyglass

I am also a big Mimi's fan

roundabout
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duplicate

.

roundabout
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What Restaurant?

...One with fru fru style and for sophisticated tastes!

One where we could "rally behind" and not the assembly line dining.

We have vacancy plague except in "outward." And a hole in the center! Where the residential/commercial area should be!

I don't seem to have all this phobia about too many empty buildings---I don't own any of them!
Isn't there a skyscraper "private club" being built here someplace?
Do you know what will happen is such a place? Sophisticated maybe?

Maybe we can stop the hole in the center?

k0bra
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How about we fix our local

How about we fix our local infrastructure and clear up some pesky intersections and empty buildings before we start building more. The Walgreens/CVS is an abomination and we're going to continue to let this happen because of loopholes? Stand up people! The only beautiful thing about georgia is it's beautiful trees, flowers, and greenery. Without that we're pretty much nothing so let's leave the Line Creek "AREA" alone and tell the developers we're all full here. All the nail salons, defunct hair salons, tire discount stores, and tanning salons are a sure sign that we're turning to F'ville and not far along Jonesboro, Morrow and Riverdale. Let's rethink where we live people. Peachtree City is what it is because we embrace the greenery and landscaping. I don't want to see another big, flat smelly parking lot for some stupid shopping center that no one even goes to anyway (i'm talking about you, HWY 54 West shopping center) such an eyesore.

Spyglass
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Do you understand how this property is currently zoned?

from your comments it seems you are confused. Your comparisons with other cities is laughable.

skyspy
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Why Not?

We need some more empty strip malls. How about some more beautiful nail places or a discount tire store?? That hasn't been done yet, has it?? Oooopppss...... well, maybe it has once, or twice, or10 times before, but who cares when we have some more trees to kill.

Trees are ugly to look at, I personally get sick of it. I LOVE empty strip malls.

lettinguno
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I agree with skyspy

We need more empty strip malls, but just maybe we might be able to occupy a building with a hub cap store (we don't have one yet), also maybe a bail bondsman, cash for titles, pawn shop, just a few suggestions. There are so many other empty spaces in PTC to be filled, but what they heck let's just keep building, "if we build, they will come.....right????

JeffC
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I agree with lettinguno

Who has deftly underlined the philosophical basis of supply sided economics.

L.Sussberg
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R.Butler

No, not at all.
Thank you.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Just Info

Having pushed and gotten the Transition Yard there is no need for "flexibility" to get the protections. We do not have to give to get.

Not having dug into all the issues it appears the only two items needing Council consideration are the signal and the road abandonment.

On the signal:
1. GDOT does not allow golf carts to cross highways. I wish they did at crosswalks as a lot of money could have and would be saved in not having to build bridges and tunnels.
2. When meeting with GDOT Commissioner Vance Smith and his Staff I asked about the very same kind of light for the BSC. The answer was they do not approve such lights because they have proven ineffective and unsafe.

On the road abandonment there is no legal requirement we abandon. But there are laws covering abandonment:
1. Official Code of Georgia Annotated, Title 32-7-2, as stated below:
“When it is determined that a section of the municipal street system has for any reason ceased to be used by the public to the extent that no substantial public purpose is served by it, the municipality, by certification recorded in its minutes, accompanied by a plat or sketch, and after notice to property owners located thereon, may declare that section of street shall no longer be a part of the municipal street system and the rights of the public street shall cease. The property may be disposed of by the municipality as provided in Code 32-7-4.”

2. “Dec. 1904.] MARIETTA CHAIR Co. v. HENDERSON. 161

Neither the general assembly nor a subordinate public corporation acting under its authority can lawfully vacate a public street or highway for the benefit of a private individual. The street or highway cannot be vacated unless it is for the benefit of the public that such action should be taken. The benefit may be either in relieving the public from the charge of maintaining a street or highway that is no longer useful or convenient to the public, or the laying out a new street or road in its place which will be more useful and convenient to the public in general. If the public interest is not the motive which prompts the vacation of the street whether partial or entire the act of vacation is an abuse of power and especially would it be a gross abuse of power if it is authorized without reference to the rights of the public and merely that the convenience of a private individual might be subserved. As the reason for vacating a highway must therefore 408 always be that the public interest is to be subserved,’"

While an old case it is still in effect. A number of abandonments have been ruled in violation State Code due to caselaw like this one.

I would also note for any who do not know incorporated companies are "private individuals."

Is there any reason the road has public purpose?
1. The 2001 LCI for 54 West calls for the South Secondary Road. The road is supposed to go from the Shoppes all the way to Huddleston with a roundabout on Planterra Drive. That is what all the PTC property between the Tennis Center/Cardiff and 54 is there for.
2. The CTP list and the proposed list for the HB 277 Unconstrained List item 21 says it has public purpose:
Line Creek Drive Circle Overlay and construction of curb and PC gutter of Line Creek Drive and Line Creek Circle and extension of Line Creek Circle to Huddleston Road to the East and MacDuff Crossings Shopping Area to the West.

I have already passed these considerations along since a potential joint Workshop was proposed. It would not be very productive to wait until such a Workshop to bring them forward. It gives both Council and the Planning Commission time to think and consider.

Just because the last Council majority chose to abandon did not make it legal.

R. Butler
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Mayor Haddix-legality of road abandonment

I appreciate you taking the time and effort to lay this information out. The issue that concerns me the most is your second point, the legality of such a sale. If I recall correctly, this issue was raised back when CCD was requesting the abandonment of the road as well. Despite this, the then council voted to proceed. Was this question ever put to Ted Meeker, and if so, can you share with us his opinion (which I assume was provided to the council at the time)?

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Opinion

Basically the Council could do what it wants but whether it was legal or not was a gamble.

What was not brought out back the was the issue of the use for Line Creek per the Transportation Plan.

That is an added issue.

The majority didn't care. They wanted the money.

Robert W. Morgan
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Haddix: Morgan Good research and good info. Thank you

I love it that you have so much time as a part-time mayor to research important issues and I'm thankful the internet is there to help you.

So, spend some time on this question - You half Indian or not? Which kind of Indian? And Doug?

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Morgan

A lot of it was kept from the CCD. Never know when it is needed again.

Half or more American Indian from both sides of my family for many generations. Haddix is an American name, dit name given to Indians back in the 1600s or 1700s.

My family has been here for a very long time.

As for the effort to place the City Manager in compete charge of the city daily and my role as ceremonial only, read the City Charter.

Very long list of duties only the Mayor holds, including CEO and Supervisor of the City.

AS well Council Member duties are outlined. Not the same level as Mayor.

The days of Direct Pac are gone. You really need to get over that.

Ask Doug for his background.

BHH
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So

American Indian is the answer?

Chris P. Bacon
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*boom* Head shot! FATALITY!
Don Haddix wrote:

The days of Direct Pac are gone. You really need to get over that.

To paraphrase the old video game Mortal Kombat: *boom* Head shot! Fatality! Flawless victory.

Yes, the rats of DirectPac are gone, scattered to various sewers in the Atlanta area. They are not missed, nor will they ever be missed. We shall not see their scurvy likes again, and we should all thank God for that.

BHH
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Bacon, are you there?

Hello.

BHH
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Bacon

I must admit that I have to look at everything you post. It's because of your photo. But I have a real problem reading what you write because my eyes keep reverting back to the photo and I loose my place.

mudcat
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ding, ding, ding, we have an answer - and a directpac slam

Ok, it is not a clear answer, but the half-Indian claim is there.

And picking up where Steve Brown left off, Direct Pac is in the back of someone's mind. Direct Pac, for all you new people was a political action committee formed specifically to ensure that Steve Brown not be relected mayor. Results were good as 5 candidates opposed him and Logsdon became mayor. not a great choice, but better than Brown. And some of the new blood on council came out of the Direct Pac membership - Plunkett, Rutherford, Korajian, Boone were a refreshing change from Brown toadies Rapson and Weed. Disbanded 1 month after Brown was unelected, excess funds were earmarked for charity, but later donated to Friends of Tom when that movement formed, but that is another story.

Sadly all 6 of the Direct Pac organizers have retired, moved away or passed away. Only one that I know of actually blogs on here. Now the former Direct Pac members are everywhere - one lives in my house, 1 is on city council, 2 work for the city, several fly airplanes and none of them have any desire to reactivate or lead that single-purpose political action committee. A feeble attempt to reorganize occurred during the Ramsey/Brown contest, but it fizzled, because none of the old group really cares about Brown or his antics anymore.

Yes, as Mr. Haddix said, the days of Direct Pac are over, its mission accomplished. The fact that Direct Pac is still on his mind is a recognition of how an out of control mayor can be neutralized by a dedicated core group of 6 organizers and a couple hundred members. That former out of control mayor was unable to get along with other government officials, embarrassed us at the state level, did things on his own without the backing of council and hurt our economic development efforts. Sound familiar? A new citizen group or even a PAC could happen again, but the name and faces would be different.

roundabout
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mud

We seem to get too many "out of control" Mayors in PTC!

Was Mr. Lenox "out of control?" I seem to remember he wanted to buy something for the city for one million dollars but only if it went where he wanted it to go. Never happened and he kept his money.

Then there are two others you mention; one of the Brown boys, Haddix,the half Indian I think you said, and also maybe Logsdon.

Who did the directpac elect anyway?

I didn't know so many of your family were in charge around here!

Spyglass
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IF a tree fell

in the forest, would anyone hear it?

mudcat
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Sure swami, Lenox was certainly out of control

So what. He had money and class and Lenox defying the city charter did not bother me as much then as it did when Brown did it and now that honkie Haddix has joined the parade.

Let's cut their **ts off to quote Jesse Jackson and move on.

Direct Pac elected no one. Hubby was proud that Brown got unelected and that's that. The old neighbors were in Direct Pac as well, but they are no more interested in a new Pac that we are.

Go Jackets!

roundabout
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mud cat

Classical honkies with a lot of money and no test.....!
Just whom do you propose?
I will bet this old GA county was a sight to see in the 50s!

mudcat
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Sure swami, Lenox was certainly out of control

So what. He had money and class and Lenox defying the city charter did not bother me as much then as it did when Brown did it and now that honkie Haddix has joined the parade.

Let's cut their **ts off to quote Jesse Jackson and move on.

Direct Pac elected no one. Hubby was proud that Brown got unelected and that's that. The old neighbors were in Direct Pac as well, but they are no more interested in a new Pac that we are.

Go Jackets!

Robert W. Morgan
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Good recap on Direct Pac. It may indeed be time for another PAC

When a mayor comes across as WTB, it is certainly time to consider resigning - or more likely for the rest of council to censure him like they did Steve Brown.

I forgot about Direct Pac disbanding right after the election. Good party. I even got some of my money back. The Friends of Tom incident is the only thing that will keep most people away from WTB status. The disrespect and immaturity of that event is mind boggling. And Brown went on and on about Direct Pac for 4 years after the disbanding, not realizing the state ethics complaint was brought by an individual instead of the organization.

GAltant
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Robert W Morgan & Mudcat-DirectPac

Should the first meeting be called?

Robert W. Morgan
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Yes GAltant, it is time for the first meeting - if cc censures

I'm in the effort for $1,000 as I was at first with the brown clown, but only if city council censures him (meaning Haddix) in some way. That's the first step. City Council has to declare him a run away motor mouth that is detrimental to the city and the taxpayers. Lacking that, this is all personal opinion.

Kim is the most likely to propose a censure because she knows how carefully worded and how carefully presented it must be. Done properly she will have 3 other supporting votes - even Doug's.

Direct Pac ain't coming back. I never joined, but donated lot's of money because of the dedication of the leadership - and I don't mean the BUM t-shirt guy, although he was really funny. The point is GAltant, someone has to mount some credible leadership, have public meetings like Direct Pac did and propose something specific that moves beyond complaining and whining. I do think all of that is called for, but first council has to censure him so that there are serious people with serious concerns about an unstable individual serving in government That's how it started with Brown..

BTW, all these groups usually start with a discussion about a recall effort and that is very unrealistic. Settle for public ridicule (Haddix does half the work here) and attracting viable candidates to oppose him.

GAltant
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Haddix Direct Pac!

Morgan, let's see if PTC Council censures Haddix.

Robert W. Morgan
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Censure has to be done by the council

Meaning at least 1 of the ladies has to bring it up and all 3 ladies need to vote for it. We can count on Doug sitting on his hands. I guess those that want to see this need to start calling one or more of the council members.

GAltant
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R W Morgan: Keeping Haddix under control!

It appears there was no censure of Haddix last night but this guy needs to be kept under control. He's a sore loser and believes he is the CEO of PTC with no real management experience.

Clearly, if he has the chance, he will revive the DAPC and have volunteers trying to bring business to PTC probably having Grisham working for the volunteers.

With an election just around the corner, we need to be sure the intelligent candidates like Pullias and Imker run and get elected. I'm sure he is encouraging his buddies to run, of course only those he can control and give him 3 to 2 council vote.

If there is to be a HADDIX DIRECT PAC...its needed in this next election, not in 2 1/2 years when his term is up.

mudcat
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Controlling Haddix and any mayor

You may not like this idea, but I have been told it works elsewhere.

Since Haddix like Brown before him has such trouble interpreting the city charter, let's tweak it a little so it can't be misunderstood. Expand city council by adding one seat. Maybe go regional with 1 seat from each of the 4 villages and 1 at-large seat. Continue with weak mayor, strong city manager format and, saving the best part for last - the mayor doesn't get a vote - he simply presides over the meetings.

That would allow people with run away egos to still have face time in front of a microphone, but it would limit their power to disrupt. Of course the mayor could still guide discussions and he would vote to break a tie if 1 member were absent, but he or she would not be thinking and scheming about voting blocs and who supports who. Best of all, you would get higher quality people to run for mayor under this system and we sure could use that.

This is an easy process if you have clout in the GA State House and we do. All you need is a non-political committee to draft changes, city council to approve and the GA Legislature will rubber-stamp approve it next year. This is a way for Kim or Vanessa or Eric or even Doug if he wants to distance himself from Haddix, to produce a censure for Haddix in sheep's clothing. It is both clever and effective. Easier than a recall effort.

roundabout
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*

*

roundabout
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mud

I suppose you wrote this in jest! Makes no sense.
Recalls, censures, sheep's clothing, voting blocks, clout, egos, I think I have had enough of this "Mayor" thing.

There is not a one of you who can get elected who would do this job.

Haddix is a result, good or bad, of unusual people being elected due to functioning guttersnipes such as we have in this town! People get tired of same ole, same ole bitching and yelping about their man not getting elected, and just for that I will raise hell with the fellow who shouldn't
even be there.

Our next Mayor will probably be new here, from New York, and black.

Robert W. Morgan
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Correct. Haddixpac the best censure. Good one GAltant

The immediate need is to prevent a Haddix supporter from getting on council and certainly to get Doug out of there. It is clear that Imker is never going to be a Haddix toadie, but he is a loose cannon. Beth is a no-brainer, she needs to be on council. I'd like to see Kourajian and even Plunkett come back, but of course that is up to them.

As you say, no need to sit back and let nature take its course on this election - candidates have to be screened for crazy ideas and eliminated. I'll donate money to get a Haddixpac started. I have some ideas on back door communication and fund raising. This must be registered as a PAC.

If city council lacks the cojones to censure Haddix, the citizens must do it.

Mike King
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RWM

Count me as a donor! Even with the censure, PTC needs to cleanse itself of Haddix and any residual influence he may have.

Robert W. Morgan
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I knew we could count on you for haddixpac, Mike

And you may want to consider running for Doug's seat this time around. Should be a pretty straight-forward campaign - do we need more or less of the ongoing nonsense?

GAltant
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RWM,Mike King and Haddix PAC

Glad we are all on the same page about Haddix! I am sure there are many others and when the time comes, actually for this coming election in November we will need to organize to back the right candidates!

Regarding Eric Imker, in my eyes he's a rock star. He came into council with a focused mission of fiscal responsibility! He has accomplished a lot for the citizens. We need him to remain on council to keep that focus plus shove a hot poker up Haddix's hinny!

Mike King would be a great addition to council, so would Beth Pullias.
We need to be careful, rumor has it Haddix is recruiting candidates that we will give him a 3 to 2...If we assume Doug plans to run, the other rumor is he will push David Conner from planning commission and DAPC....

Candidates need to be selected to run against the right cronies.

Count me in for a donation as well...same as RWM.

Haddix wants the control of council in the worst way.

carbonunit52
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PTC politics play: Don Haddix, cast in the part of the bad guy.

From the observation of a relatively casual observer, i.e. the carbonunit, it appears that Don is being made out to be a much worse character than what is visible to the eye of this observer. Admittedly, my view only goes back three years, to the time when I came skidding into town on my ass and was warmly greeted by two other characters that were vilified on these blogs, Bernie and Harold. Needless to say, I take the opinions of Don's detractors with a few grains of salt. I find Don's articles and blogs informative, and presented in a polite manner. As JeffC pointed out, everything he says can and will be used against him. To this casual observer, all of this talk of a "Haddixpac" really sounds like a bumper crop of sour grapes. Given the recent discussion of ancestry, perhaps a peace pipe could be passed around, of course, this is coming from someone whose idea of jewelry is bear claws and eagle feathers. To summarize, Don Haddix is far from perfect but I do not believe all of this negativity is warranted.

NUK_1
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Have to disagree with you, Carbon

You're usually pretty dead-on, but on this, I disagree.

Haddix's il-founded and distorted opinions are one thing; his lack of leadership, extremely sensitive skin when things don't go his way, pettiness, a vision for PTC I totally disagree with, and seeming alienation of everyone he comes into contact with seems to indicate that this job is well above his pay grade and someone else might be a better option.

I simply think the guy lacks the intelligence to be Mayor of PTC or most other jobs, and that isn't something I would say about a person like Steve Brown who I disagree with frequently but who I think is just misguided, not dumb. Haddix has shown IMHO that he's simply lacking in areas that require thinking, logical reasoning, and temperament and that makes him very ineffective and someone who will do more harm than good to PTC.

His proclamations about who will or won't shop at Wal-Mart/Home Depot or Sam's shows a shocking ignorance and head in the sand(or other places) that I really don't expect from someone who is an elected "leader" of anything.

The fact that he hasn't yet realized even what form of government that the charter of PTC specifies and how he refuses to accept that is a real concern for me. The people at City Hall who actually are burdened to do all the work have little to no respect for him at all. The other members of Council don't seem to either, even his usual supporter in Dough Sturbaum is breaking ranks these days.

carbonunit52
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Well put Nuk

Your opinions and observations are well articulated. My point is that negativity is not productive. Why look for candidates to run as anti-Haddix, because, as we have seen with the last national elections, wolves campaigned in sheep's clothing under similar circumstances? A successful recall seems remote at best, and a spirit of disagreement for the next three years is more appealing than a spirit of contention. That is my primary position, and my secondary position, which is actually my default position, is that my liking any of it is not a requirement.
I think I'll go listen to "Ripple" by the Grateful Dead.

Robert W. Morgan
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Imker a rock star? Ummmmmm, GAltant, let's talk

No doubt he is good theater and the iron poker thing, well yes (I assume you mean hiney) and the image works for me. Of course Imker is not going to be a Haddix butt boy like Doug, but he is replaceable by many others who would be better. Who? You ask? Beth, of course is my first choice. Mike King. Dar Thompson (yes, I'm serious), Plunkett, Sussman, Kourajian, Gibbs, Bradshaw, Viall, Sam Chapman, Susan Brown. Dan Tenant may be ready to come back. And yes indeed, Terry Garlock. Realistically, Scott Rowland would have the best chance of unseating Imker, hope he runs.

Of course some of them may run against Doug. Either way - MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! No Haddix enablers.

Chris P. Bacon
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Garlock Campaign Bumper Stickers!

Hot off the press: Terry Garlock for City Council Bumper Stickers

I think Terry Garlock on the PTC council would make for excellent political theater.

We've seen here on these blogs how little Terry takes it as a personal insult when someone disagrees with his positions...can you imagine him as a councilman where he'd actually have to listen to constituents?

He wouldn't last a month.

I've applied for a trademark on the phrase "Terry Garlock: A Troubled Man For Troubled Times" just in case, though.

Mike King
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RWM, et al

All fine choices who would serve with both logical and sound reasoning. My main concern is that we have three more years of Emperor Haddix and with a majority on Council, he (Haddix) will do significant harm to Peachtree City. My support cannot be with anyone allied with Don, and that includes Doug because, for my money, I prefer someone who hasn't required someone to speak on their behalf for the previous three years.

As far as Imker being a rock star, all I can say is that the consternation he has caused Don has been well worth the theatre.

Agreed, no Haddix enablers!

AtHomeGym
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GAltant & City Council

Just so you know, this morning, at a breakfast meeting of the Pucker Factor Club (all Vietnam Vets), there was considerable discussion by PTC residents (which I am not) about "drafting" Terry Garlock to run for the Council. Mike King even volunteered to serve as his campaign manager! While I agree that Mike would be an excellent member, he has oft repeated his decision not to run again, as he has (or had) other priorities.

Mike King
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Thanks Gym...

...For the kind words, but all the members (and others) need to keep prodding Terry as he would be a most excellent choice.

Haddix has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to garner respect, much less lead. Who knows, should Haddix experience more weeks like the last one, a recall might be in order.

AtHomeGym
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Mike, Terry, & City Council

Mike, while it is really none of my business, seeing as I'm not a PTC resident, I certainly agree that Terry would be an excellent choice. He certainly understands fiscal issues and would add an honest common sense approach that may not be present today.

mudcat
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Ditto on Terry. Good choice and very electable

Go against "me and Doug" Sturbaum. Although Beth would probably go after Doug as well and she definitely gets my vote. Nothing to be gained in a rematch with Imker.

Dream match up is Terry vs. Imker and Beth vs. Doug. You wind up with 3 solid chances to have a Haddix-proof board and even if Doug gets lucky, it will still be 3-2 (the 2 being "me and Doug"
I think Doug will retire instead. He does not want to go
down because of Haddix and he should know this. And if he chooses not to run, he'll be perfectly positioned for one of the 3 Fayette County Commission seats coming up next year.

NUK_1
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Count me in in for HaddixPac version 2.0

I'd say that Doug Sturbaum would be target #1, but even Doug has shown some independence from the Haddix brain-drain lately and gone against Don twice recently on key votes(gas golf cart ban and the Don's magical changes to zoning that FAILED)

I've also noticed that after a couple of years of the incessant and very annoying "me and Sturbaum," "me and Sturbaum," even Haddix has stopped that crap so either he wised-up or Sturbaum told him "hey, I can speak for myself." Either way, it's good. Maybe there is hope for Sturbaum and I'll be closely watching who runs against him to see if they are going to be any better or maybe worse than Sturbaum who has recently shown he's not just a sock puppet for Don Haddix.

I'd really like to see Mark Holumns run for Mayor against Haddix because Holumns is pretty sharp,a real businessman instead of some wanna-be like we are used to, experienced in the PTC BS, and is also one of the few people who actually was advocating for WASA to expand sewer into Senoia before the short-sighted idiots like Haddix and Brown killed it and left all of us with much higher water/sewer bills and Senoia with DOUBLE the capacity from Coweta since "we" were too stupid to give them half of that and benefit from it. I'd guess that over half of the PTC-tards fall into that same line of "anti-everything" and or just as guilty, but Holumns was a lone voice in the wilderness along with WASA who said the exact same thing to deaf ears....until it came to pay for dramatically increased water/sewer bills, then even most of the sheeple woke up.

I'll gladly put my money up and even some time for anyone running against Haddix or someone supported by Haddix. The opposition has to at least show they have an IQ above a Dorito before I will send money their way, but that shouldn't be too hard and it's not like the opposition is going to have to stretch upwards to meet the standard already polluting the office.

GAltant
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.

.

BHH
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GAltant

You are SO to the point that I couldn't agree more.

NUK_1
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Keep digging a bigger hole, Don

Mayor as "CEO" of the city? Maybe you need to read the city charter a few more times or have someone explain it to you YET AGAIN since I know several have tried, including a few who happen to be a helluva lot more experienced in law and/or government than you. You could work in government the rest of your days on this planet and you wouldn't come close to my own experience for that matter.

The Mayor and Council are very much like a Board of Directors and only a fool would think that this is a strong-Mayor form of government(when it clearly isn't) or that the Mayor of PTC is in any way a resemblance to a CEO. Totally ridiculous.

Your biggest problem is your stupefying ego when you have shown frequently you have no idea what you are talking about on several occasions. There are times to admit you are WRONG or just shut up, neither of which you do at all. Then, you look totally SHOCKED that Doug Sturbaum votes against you twice recently and maybe you need to start paying more attention to what is going on. Congrats...you've turned the usual 3-2 into some more suspenseful votes.....will it be 3-2 or 4-1?

L.Sussberg
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R.Butler

I agree with your comments.
In past posts I referred to the process as a semi-judicial process. Our Planning Commission is not the final decision-maker, making recommendations to the city council,who decides.

The process itself,when it enters the city should be a fair and balanced, allowing a developer to receive due process.

A planning commission has to use as its guide the comprehensive land use plan which is built from the bottom up, every 5 or 10 years (sorry, I forget as I write this note). The plan should include all related ordinances regarding setbacks, buffers, etc. The commission should listen to the developer's plan, allow for input from citizens then weigh everything. I believe that the further you stray from the plan, the more problems you create, based upon any precedences that are set involving re-zoning and/or variances. Situations do arise on an individual basis where it is felt that the project adds value to the community and should be considered.

The developer has the right to develop her/his property within the requirements outlined in the plan and within all city ordinances. The city is not obligated to issue any variances or re-zoning.

If you read over the previous posts, you can see why that developer felt that the process was biased.

R. Butler
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Mr. Sussberg

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I did look at a number of your past postings on this subject, and hope that I did not misstate your views or otherwise inaccurately take something you said out of context.

MYTMITE
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Just say "No" to road abandoment from the beginning. Remember

what we went through before regarding the proposed shopping center---asking for one thing after another--all detrimental to PTC. Pray tell, how effective would a flashing light be at that intersection? I sure wouldn't want to have to depend on it. If they have no better solutions than these--just say "No"

roundabout
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MyTno

I didn't go through anything regarding the proposed shopping center! That area from the railroad to beyond the county line will be jammed full eventually. Forget it.

Just say no! Didn't work for Nancy either.

MYTMITE
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Hey, man of many names-----

was Nancy someone you dated??? Just wondering.

Robert W. Morgan
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Careful there Sparky. Read the most dangerous sentence.

That would be "The property is zoned for general commercial development and is currently owned by a bank, city officials said".

Naturally it depends on which bank, but almost all of them are in full panic mode disposing of commercial property. Everyone expects commercial (especially retail) to take another huge hit later this year or early next. If this development with the small "anchors" misses approval, rest assured the bank will cut the price in half and some developer who builds complete crap will be back with Goodwill or worse. Wonder if you can build self-storage or an ALDI or a mobile home park in GC zoning.

Losing that little cul-de-sac doesn't bother me a bit and it is useless anyway.. The blinking light is just plain stupid, but other than that - go for it.

Edited Thursday: BTW, the way those 4 buildings are set up, it would be easy to break through (or just not construct) the interior walls and have 1 user in about 100,000 square foot of space. Maybe Lowe's. Wonder if anyone at the city thought of that?

R. Butler
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Abandonment of city streets (again)

Is that issue seriously going to be considered again? There was no public benefit to that decision when CCD pushed for it two years ago. It just allows the developer to bypass the existing setback ordinances so that the property can be built to a far greater density than would be otherwise possible.

mudcat
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Maybe he is just trolloing for a Haddix comment

Something like "My personal opinion is that you don't have a chance in hell of getting this passed and I'll do everything to fight you, but no, I don't actually have any influence over how the rest of city council will vote" - Something like that would work for the developer - would it not?

R. Butler
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Trolling for comments...

I guess if one subscribed to the point of view of Mr. Sussberg on this issue, it would. Respectfully, I do not. If I understand his position correctly, Mr. Sussberg believes that the city council (and mayor) are functionally the equivalent of "judges" in such matters. I disagree. A judge takes an oath of office to fairly and impartially apply the law. While our elected council officials must act in conformance with the law, the decisions which they undertake can (and do) take into account a far wider set of factors--such as public opinion, or even their own political self-interests. Regardless of what they are perceived to be, such decisions do not actually have to be either "fair" or "impartial". They just have to be legal.

Taking Mr. Sussberg's view to its logical conclusion, one would be hard pressed to identify any member of the council who might actually be able to cast an "impartial" vote on this matter, given either the prior votes made on these issues when CCD raised them, or previous public statements on this same property by members running for election to council (or for mayor).

I do not believe that a request for a re-zoning, a land use variance or the opportunity to purchase a city owned road can somehow be construed as an issue of "due process". I do believe in fairness--and have supported the idea that either CCD, or now Trinity should be able to commercially develop the property in accordance with existing zoning and ordinances. But along the same vein, they are not entitled to anymore than that. Being advised informally that council will (or will not) favorably view such a request is not, in my opinion, unfair or illegal. It is an important process which hopefully saves both the city and the applicant time and money.

NUK_1
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Due process in rezonings is THE LAW

This is an issue that confuses a lot of people in Fayette and elsewhere despite some serious beat-downs in court over it. Here's the website of a man who has thoroughly embarrassed and defesated local governments all over GA many times who were ignorant of zoning issues and has gotten very rich from that ignorance. I present to you the Most Hated Attorney By Local Governments, Doug Dillard!

http://www.dillardgallowaylaw.com/Case-Summaries.shtml

IN rezonings it really doesn't matter what anyone "thinks" should or shouldn't be the established case law, it is what it is until the law gets changed. When any elected official speaks out and says "no way, hell no, whatever," that is just stupid. It's stupid from the perspective that no one person on a Council speaks for all(unless they have been discussing this in private amongst themselves and violating the Open Meetings Act)on any specific rezoning proposal that hasn't even been brought up yet, but it also gives a developer like Norsouth or any others all kinds of leverage they didn't have before.

Basically, you have to at least "act" like you are going to carefully consider the facts of any proposed rezoning when it is actually MADE without running off at the mouth and saying "never happen ever no matter what" before it is even considered or proposed. DUH! That's as stupid as declaring a building moratorium and then immediately deciding how dumb that was so I'll(Brown, who else?) go talk to the developers myself about even though city staff isn't allowed to even consider anything under the moratorium I just spearheaded through.. A court tossing out that moratorium saved further embarrassment thankfully on that issue.

mudcat
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WWJD? Probably follow the law

NUK is correct. Doug Dillard knows more about the law than any mayor or councilperson ever elected anywhere. They use specific examples of his cases in one of the orientation classes in Athens for newly elected officials. The purpose of that is to prevent someone from being trapped into saying something stupid and getting sued. Sound familiar?

Pay attention in class, Mr. Mayor. We don't have the money for lawsuits. Maybe we the taxpayers can declare that our mayor received a failing grade in that class and must take it again in summer school.

R. Butler
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PTC website posting on this particular issue

NUK and Mudcat-

While doing some additional research in light of your observations, I came across this recently posted information on the Peachtree City Website pertaining to the history of actions related to this development.

It appears this site just came up.

http://www.peachtree-city.org/index.aspx?NID=558

NUK_1
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Issue of rezoning

My comments were more about rezoning in general than this particular track of land that PTC is fortunate wasn't developed according to the plan Council eventually approved a couple of years back. One slight benefit of a big recession and tighter credit in this case.

The PTC website link you mentioned on this land and its various proposals over time is well done and is a good resource for people looking to get a lot of real, detailed information, and all in one place.

Chris P. Bacon
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Thank you, R. Butler!

That's a very refreshing take on things. I wholeheartedly agree with your position!

ILuvFayette
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Spyglass, I agree 100%

Not only are they an eyesore, they are a distraction to drivers.

Spyglass
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Just ban the "walking signs" already...

I could go with a special use permit every so often for stores or something of the like.

The guys twirling arrows everyday though, they need to go.

roundabout
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spy

"Special use for stores?"

I thought they were all stores!

Could it be just your store?

roundabout
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Spy

They need a job!

As long as they stay out of the road I see no problem with local advertising.

Heck, the Shriners walk the highway between cars.

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